[p2p-research] Fwd: [ox-en] No more money trickery propaganda please

[Ryan Lanham]

Stefan and Michel:

These are excellent, real and painful reasons why I am trying to complete a
set of collaborative principles for P2P.  This was not done simply to use up
my spare time.  I urge a practical exercise here, based on this all to human
and festering set of interactions.

I think the point of the Collaborative Principles is to find a foundation
whereby people can agree to collaborate together under a given set of
expectations without fear that something cannot be judged reasonably as out
of bounds.  When they cannot agree to those relations, they ought to be able
to say, for the following reasons, this is outside a P2P based
relationship.

Courteous and respectful relations, it strikes me, ought to be fundamental
to P2P interactions.

Peer to peer issues ought to be handled, peer-to-peer. But collaborations
and large scale interactions of networks call for integral leadership of P2P
entities--the case here.

A great challenge of integral leadership is not egoizing the interaction.
That calls for talents beyond my own, but it is a goal or ought to be one.

In this case, the large scale dialogue of two important groups is threatened
by egos--we all have an ego and I mean no implied criticism of anyone.  Yet
ego is not a P2P ideal.

Hard as it may be at this juncture, the spirit moving forward ought to be to
error on the side of collaboration, stop the finger wagging (which seemed to
start this) and to work together to build something bigger and stronger than
the ideas of either set of persons at the core.

I am no monk and I make a poor peacemaker, but I recommend quiet divorce or
troubled but valuable interaction founded on some set of collaborative
principles where reasonable people who many value can live on with peace of
mind and respect for their reflective, principled lives, even if they might
be imperfect.

All the usual comments and attributions (one thinks of the comment that is
attributed here and there that the arguments in academia are so fierce
because the stakes are so low...) apply here.

Michel, as a friend, I recommend rebuilding even when the abrasion stings.
And I urge you to counsel me to the same at the appropriate future time.
Stefan, I'm deeply interested in what you have to say, but I hope in future
it can be said with minimal implications as if you have found a higher moral
status and look down on anyone else with summary judgment.  That surely
isn't P2P.

I am selfishly interested in hearing what the Left in Germany and beyond has
to say.  But I do not implicitly agree with them and fully reserve the right
to disagree with ideas whenever and wherever I want.

If I am out of bounds with any of my comments, I apologize to any and all
offended and ask for the most sympathetic possible reading of this note.

Ryan Lanham



On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Stefan Merten <smerten at oekonux.de> wrote:

> Hi Michel!
>
> Please stop the mud campaign against me. IMHO you really don't need
> this.
>
> I still value you and your work and I say this all the time and in
> public. I do not share all of your views but that is ok with me. If
> sharing all your views is a precondition for you then I'd be glad if
> you can state this clearly because then there is really no common
> ground. However, in the past I experienced it differently.
>
> Today Michel Bauwens wrote:
> > The gist of it seems to be that anyone who is not an adherent to a black
> bag
> > theory of capitalism (it's a undivided whole you can only abolish as a
> > whole) is in fact unwittingly racial.
>
> Well, the discussion starting at
>
>        http://www.oekonux.org/list-en/archive/msg05457.html
>
> was absolutely not about this. I'm sorry to recognize that seemingly
> everything I say in this regard really doesn't reach you.
>
> > But you have to ask the question, what is the purpose of the incessant
> > taunts if not to demean and dehumanize intellectual dissidents.
>
> There was no demeaning. For everyone interested in the reasons why
> money trickery should no longer take place on [ox-en] please see posts
> like
>
>        http://www.oekonux.org/list-en/archive/msg05716.html
>
> In fact on this list here there is a fertile ground for this stuff and
> the world looses absolutely nothing if Oekonux focuses solely on peer
> production - which is only a small part of what P2P in the sense of
> Michel covers. In the contrary I'd such a separation on topics is good
> and healthy because then everyone can choose the options matching
> their personal interest best.
>
> Everybody who is interested in a focused, thoughtful and open
> discussion on peer production with a scientific approach is
> wholeheartedly welcome on [ox-en]. See
>
>        http://www.oekonux.org/list-en/subscribe.html
>
> for subscription hints.
>
> > You also have to know that Stefan attempted to export his diktat to the
> book
> > project, hence my difficulty in continuing the cooperation.
>
> I resent that you post details from private conversation here - and
> then in such a distorted form. IMHO you really don't need this.
>
> In fact I said that I would have problems with being responsible for
> certain content and asked whether this can be omitted because of this.
> If not then I can not be responsible and that is perfectly ok with me.
>
> > I actually don't want to blow all bridges, but I think I do I'm right  to
> > expect a stopping of the taunts and an abandonment of any efforts to
> stifle
> > free debate,
>
> This has nothing to do with free debate and you know this very well.
>
> In fact I think P2P Foundation and Oekonux has far more in common than
> what divides us. I understand that you are really upset now. I'm sorry
> for this but there is probably not much I can do about it.
>
> However, I think there will be times when cooperation will be easier
> again and I look forward to these times.
>
> In any case I would like to ask you to stop telling lies about me.
>
>
>                                                Grüße
>
>                                                Stefan
>
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>
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