[p2p-research] Fwd: [ox-en] No more money trickery propagandaplease (was: Re: Explanation of interest)

Tue May 12 13:57:00 CEST 2009

Hi Michel, 
being German myself, I find your generalisation of the left German mind
a bit problematic. It is true that this controversy has destroyed the
German left in the 1980s and early 1990s, but there was not much madness
to it. It was a debate where both fractions had strong arguments for
their respective case. The quote you use does not respresent well what
you call the Anti-German fraction within the German Left. There was no
general equation of anti-finance with anti-jewish, this really would be
silly. However there was a rather strong sensitivity to detect
anti-semitism even within the left movement, and this approach made
perfect sense considering the specific experiences of the Germans with
genocide.
In short: I would disagree that the 'German over-reaction to their past'
could serve as a convincing explanation for Stefan's reaction towards
your position. I would also question if it is actually possible to have
an over-raction to genocide.
Andreas

	-----Original Message-----
	From: p2presearch-bounces at listcultures.org
[mailto:p2presearch-bounces at listcultures.org] On Behalf Of Michel
Bauwens
	Sent: 12 May 2009 08:14
	To: Kevin Carson
	Cc: p2presearch at listcultures.org
	Subject: Re: [p2p-research] Fwd: [ox-en] No more money trickery
propagandaplease (was: Re: Explanation of interest)

	Hi Kevin, 

	I understand a little better the crazyness behind the reactions,
it seems to be a peculiar German over-reaction to their past.

	Here's the context, I won't quote the name of the author so as
not to involve him in this controversy.

	The gist of it seems to be that anyone who is not an adherent to
a black bag theory of capitalism (it's a undivided whole you can only
abolish as a whole) is in fact unwittingly racial.

	It boggles the mind and what these people fail to see is that
their view of capitalism is itself a projection (though I'm not claiming
it is in any way a racial projection).

	But you have to ask the question, what is the purpose of the
incessant taunts if not to demean and dehumanize intellectual
dissidents.

	You also have to know that Stefan attempted to export his diktat
to the book project, hence my difficulty in continuing the cooperation.

	I actually don't want to blow all bridges, but I think I do I'm
right  to expect a stopping of the taunts and an abandonment of any
efforts to stifle free debate,

	Michel

	>See here:
	>
	>That's a myth, albeit an old and widespread one. In capitalism,
	>"productive economy" and "money systems" belong closely
together and
	>cannot exist without another. That the first is "real",
earth-bound and
	>good, the second "fictional", virtual and dangerous, is a
classical
	>mechanism of purification and projection: The negative aspects
of
	>capitalism (i.e. crashes) are projected into the bad "money
sphere" (and
	>associated with it were traditionally the Jews, which were is
this way
	>made culpable for the bad sides of capitalism).

	quote:

	Yes:

	1. crisizing the money system -> disregarding the interrelation
between
	money system and productive system

	2. turning this critique int reality -> attacking financial
capital
	without critisizing industrial capital and state

	3. attacking financial capital -> attacking the jews

	And guess what: that mad logic has destroyed the German left. A
whole
	faction of it went bezerk, the so-called "Anti-Germans", and
they end up
	in deing pro-war and anti-arabic (which is maybe the modern form
of
	antisemitism)"

	On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Kevin Carson
<free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com> wrote:

		On 5/10/09, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
wrote:
		> Please note that after this email I will no longer
cooperate with Stefan,
		> and that includes work on the book project,

		I can't say I blame you.  It's a shame that someone who
has
		contributed so much work of value can't disagree in a
civil manner,
		without such doctrinaire assertions (not to mention the
sort of
		childish taunts you'd expect in a schoolyard).
		--
		Kevin Carson
		Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
		Mutualist Blog:  Free Market Anti-Capitalism
		http://mutualist.blogspot.com
		Studies in Mutualist Political Economy
		http://www.mutualist.org/id47.html
		Organization Theory:  A Libertarian Perspective

http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.htm
l

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