[p2p-research] "Many of us will not send mail to gmail.com"

Sun May 10 17:07:14 CEST 2009

Thanks. I'll join and find out....

There is of course Freenet (which is p2p in its architecture) but it's
too paranoid in its obsession with security and anonymity that it
actualy scares off normal users, imo.

On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:50 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not talking about them as a discussion list, but as a whole
> infrastructure being developed for activist movements ...
>
> here: https://we.riseup.net/
>
>
> On 5/10/09, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I did post once on Rise Up under the Money or Economy list and had
>> zero responses (to a daft of the P2P Energy Economy) so I never
>> bothered to post again.
>>
>> Are you suggesting they may be interested in technology related
>> discussions/ideas?
>>
>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi Marc,
>> >
>> > are you familiar with initiaives such as Rise Up ? (alternative mailing
>> > list
>> > provider for activist movements)
>> >
>> > Michel
>> >
>> >
>> > On 5/10/09, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I'm sure there are many more opinions about this subject ... within
>> >> this list and in general... but majority of people are happy when
>> >> technology just works, not too concerned about underlying philosophy
>> >> especially when they're carrying out the fight on a different level.
>> >>
>> >> I think it's just a matter of personal inclination... I can't separate
>> >> the technology from the mission because I've spent most of my life
>> >> thinking about technology and how to use it to change the way people
>> >> think ...
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Michel Bauwens
>> >> <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > a rectification, Marc, I was speaking for myself, not for the list
>> >> > ....
>> >> >
>> >> > the p2p-f wiki lists all kind of p2p infrastructural technologies ...
>> >> >
>> >> > it's something I (we?) support in general, but not as an obligation
>> >> > for
>> >> > all
>> >> > members to abide by ...
>> >> >
>> >> > Michel
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 5/10/09, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> <<
>> >> >> it's "why a definitely non-p2p way to do email
>> >> >> > is much more popular on a pro-p2p list?"
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Marco:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What is the purpose of the list?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If the list's purpose was to promote the use of p2p technologies as
>> >> >> well as p2p paradigms (beyond technologies) then you would expect
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> list members to care a lot. But as Michel put it in his preceding
>> >> >> reply (in this thread) the purpose of the list is focused on
>> >> >> discussing and promoting p2p paradigms but not technologies (or as
>> >> >> Michel put it: driving the car and not worrying about the motor [and
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> add: not worrying whether it's a p2p motor or a centralized motor or
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> hybrid])
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I think this is a taste issue. People can make all sorts of
>> >> >> arguments
>> >> >> (like I do, like we all do) to justify their choices but at the end
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> the day it's a taste issue not an objective thing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm fine if this list's taste is to drive the car and not worry
>> >> >> about
>> >> >> the motor. That's because at least the car is being driven in the
>> >> >> right direction and the argument is: whatever motor does the best
>> >> >> job
>> >> >> NOW, TODAY, because we need to get to our destination.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> To people like me and you, it seems that we care about the motor as
>> >> >> much as the car and the destination.  Maybe others care deeply about
>> >> >> the motor, but I hear Michel saying it's all physics to him and his
>> >> >> goal is to get to the destination.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So I have no problem with it. However, being an engineer I can't
>> >> >> ignore physics and mechanics since to me the "design" of the
>> >> >> technology we use is an integral part of the belief system and the
>> >> >> vision, inseparable.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Marc
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 12:15 AM, M. Fioretti
>> >> >> <mfioretti at nexaima.net>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > On Sat, May 09, 2009 23:45:33 PM +0200, Kris ROOSE wrote:
>> >> >> >> Ryan and Marc,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I don/t understand you:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Any good email client automatically includes an attribution line
>> >> >> > (the
>> >> >> > one above starting with "On Sat, May 09...") which leaves a very
>> >> >> > clear
>> >> >> > and very fast to read track (EVEN when it's a quote of a quote of
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> > quote!!!) of who said what. That feature, and of course proper
>> >> >> > trimming/quoting, exist to avoid misattributions and
>> >> >> > misunderstandings. The person who "criticized" Gmail sorting it's
>> >> >> > only
>> >> >> > me (Marco), not Marc Fawzi nor Ryan.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> all my thousands of Gmails are immediately sorted by date... and
>> >> >> >> by
>> >> >> >> much more than that
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I am not a Gmail user. I got an account years ago, but only played
>> >> >> > with it a bit. More recently, I played again a little bit, with
>> >> >> > permission, into some friends Gmail accounts. In both cases, I
>> >> >> > didn't
>> >> >> > find or recognize any of the ways to sort messages (recipient,
>> >> >> > sender,
>> >> >> > date, size, etc...) which are pre-built in almost all other
>> >> >> > clients I
>> >> >> > know of, so I got the impression that Gmail is really limited and
>> >> >> > quite below average from this specific point of view. A quick
>> >> >> > search
>> >> >> > shows I'm not alone in this:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=7e8728af01fea293&hl=en
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2007/07/18/the-one-thing-gmail-really-needs-and-has-never-been-done/
>> >> >> > http://www.thisisgoingtobebig.com/2005/06/gmail_sorting_i.html
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Since the 1st link is... three days old, I gather that the sorting
>> >> >> > limits denounced in the two other links are still there. For
>> >> >> > **me**
>> >> >> > they would be enough not to use Gmail, but no problem with others
>> >> >> > who
>> >> >> > don't care, really. Please note that my main question/curiosity
>> >> >> > isn't
>> >> >> > "does Gmail suck or not", it's "why a definitely non-p2p way to do
>> >> >> > email
>> >> >> > is much more popular on a pro-p2p list?"
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Marco
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend
>> >> >> > on
>> >> >> > how
>> >> >> > software is used *around*
>> >> >> > you:            http://digifreedom.net/node/84
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > p2presearch mailing list
>> >> >> > p2presearch at listcultures.org
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Marc Fawzi
>> >> >> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>> >> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> p2presearch mailing list
>> >> >> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>> >> > http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>> >> > http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>> >> >
>> >> > Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>> >> > http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>> >> > http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>> >> >
>> >> > Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>> >> >
>> >> > The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>> >> > http://www.shiftn.com/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Marc Fawzi
>> >> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>> > http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>> > http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>> >
>> > Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>> > http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>> > http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>> >
>> > Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>> >
>> > The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>> > http://www.shiftn.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Marc Fawzi
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>
>
>
> --
> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>
> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>
> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> http://www.shiftn.com/

-- 

Marc Fawzi
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi