[p2p-research] "Many of us will not send mail to gmail.com"

Sun May 10 16:50:27 CEST 2009

I'm not talking about them as a discussion list, but as a whole
infrastructure being developed for activist movements ...

here: https://we.*riseup*.net/

On 5/10/09, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I did post once on Rise Up under the Money or Economy list and had
> zero responses (to a daft of the P2P Energy Economy) so I never
> bothered to post again.
>
> Are you suggesting they may be interested in technology related
> discussions/ideas?
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Marc,
> >
> > are you familiar with initiaives such as Rise Up ? (alternative mailing
> list
> > provider for activist movements)
> >
> > Michel
> >
> >
> > On 5/10/09, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm sure there are many more opinions about this subject ... within
> >> this list and in general... but majority of people are happy when
> >> technology just works, not too concerned about underlying philosophy
> >> especially when they're carrying out the fight on a different level.
> >>
> >> I think it's just a matter of personal inclination... I can't separate
> >> the technology from the mission because I've spent most of my life
> >> thinking about technology and how to use it to change the way people
> >> think ...
> >>
> >> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Michel Bauwens <
> michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > a rectification, Marc, I was speaking for myself, not for the list
> ....
> >> >
> >> > the p2p-f wiki lists all kind of p2p infrastructural technologies ...
> >> >
> >> > it's something I (we?) support in general, but not as an obligation
> for
> >> > all
> >> > members to abide by ...
> >> >
> >> > Michel
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 5/10/09, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> <<
> >> >> it's "why a definitely non-p2p way to do email
> >> >> > is much more popular on a pro-p2p list?"
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Marco:
> >> >>
> >> >> What is the purpose of the list?
> >> >>
> >> >> If the list's purpose was to promote the use of p2p technologies as
> >> >> well as p2p paradigms (beyond technologies) then you would expect the
> >> >> list members to care a lot. But as Michel put it in his preceding
> >> >> reply (in this thread) the purpose of the list is focused on
> >> >> discussing and promoting p2p paradigms but not technologies (or as
> >> >> Michel put it: driving the car and not worrying about the motor [and
> I
> >> >> add: not worrying whether it's a p2p motor or a centralized motor or
> a
> >> >> hybrid])
> >> >>
> >> >> I think this is a taste issue. People can make all sorts of arguments
> >> >> (like I do, like we all do) to justify their choices but at the end
> of
> >> >> the day it's a taste issue not an objective thing.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm fine if this list's taste is to drive the car and not worry about
> >> >> the motor. That's because at least the car is being driven in the
> >> >> right direction and the argument is: whatever motor does the best job
> >> >> NOW, TODAY, because we need to get to our destination.
> >> >>
> >> >> To people like me and you, it seems that we care about the motor as
> >> >> much as the car and the destination.  Maybe others care deeply about
> >> >> the motor, but I hear Michel saying it's all physics to him and his
> >> >> goal is to get to the destination.
> >> >>
> >> >> So I have no problem with it. However, being an engineer I can't
> >> >> ignore physics and mechanics since to me the "design" of the
> >> >> technology we use is an integral part of the belief system and the
> >> >> vision, inseparable.
> >> >>
> >> >> Marc
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 12:15 AM, M. Fioretti <mfioretti at nexaima.net
> >
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > On Sat, May 09, 2009 23:45:33 PM +0200, Kris ROOSE wrote:
> >> >> >> Ryan and Marc,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I don/t understand you:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Any good email client automatically includes an attribution line
> (the
> >> >> > one above starting with "On Sat, May 09...") which leaves a very
> >> >> > clear
> >> >> > and very fast to read track (EVEN when it's a quote of a quote of a
> >> >> > quote!!!) of who said what. That feature, and of course proper
> >> >> > trimming/quoting, exist to avoid misattributions and
> >> >> > misunderstandings. The person who "criticized" Gmail sorting it's
> >> >> > only
> >> >> > me (Marco), not Marc Fawzi nor Ryan.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> all my thousands of Gmails are immediately sorted by date... and
> by
> >> >> >> much more than that
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I am not a Gmail user. I got an account years ago, but only played
> >> >> > with it a bit. More recently, I played again a little bit, with
> >> >> > permission, into some friends Gmail accounts. In both cases, I
> didn't
> >> >> > find or recognize any of the ways to sort messages (recipient,
> >> >> > sender,
> >> >> > date, size, etc...) which are pre-built in almost all other clients
> I
> >> >> > know of, so I got the impression that Gmail is really limited and
> >> >> > quite below average from this specific point of view. A quick
> search
> >> >> > shows I'm not alone in this:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=7e8728af01fea293&hl=en
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2007/07/18/the-one-thing-gmail-really-needs-and-has-never-been-done/
> >> >> > http://www.thisisgoingtobebig.com/2005/06/gmail_sorting_i.html
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Since the 1st link is... three days old, I gather that the sorting
> >> >> > limits denounced in the two other links are still there. For **me**
> >> >> > they would be enough not to use Gmail, but no problem with others
> who
> >> >> > don't care, really. Please note that my main question/curiosity
> isn't
> >> >> > "does Gmail suck or not", it's "why a definitely non-p2p way to do
> >> >> > email
> >> >> > is much more popular on a pro-p2p list?"
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Marco
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend
> on
> >> >> > how
> >> >> > software is used *around*
> >> >> > you:            http://digifreedom.net/node/84
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > p2presearch mailing list
> >> >> > p2presearch at listcultures.org
> >> >> >
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >>
> >> >> Marc Fawzi
> >> >> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
> >> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> p2presearch mailing list
> >> >> p2presearch at listcultures.org
> >> >>
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> >> > http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> >> > http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >> >
> >> > Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
> >> > http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
> >> > http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
> >> >
> >> > Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
> >> >
> >> > The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> >> > http://www.shiftn.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Marc Fawzi
> >> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> > http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> > http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >
> > Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
> > http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
> > http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
> >
> > Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
> >
> > The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> > http://www.shiftn.com/
>
>
>
> --
>
> Marc Fawzi
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>

-- 
Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com

Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/
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