[p2p-research] "Many of us will not send mail to gmail.com"

Sun May 10 16:28:53 CEST 2009

I did post once on Rise Up under the Money or Economy list and had
zero responses (to a daft of the P2P Energy Economy) so I never
bothered to post again.

 Are you suggesting they may be interested in technology related
discussions/ideas?

On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Marc,
>
> are you familiar with initiaives such as Rise Up ? (alternative mailing list
> provider for activist movements)
>
> Michel
>
>
> On 5/10/09, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure there are many more opinions about this subject ... within
>> this list and in general... but majority of people are happy when
>> technology just works, not too concerned about underlying philosophy
>> especially when they're carrying out the fight on a different level.
>>
>> I think it's just a matter of personal inclination... I can't separate
>> the technology from the mission because I've spent most of my life
>> thinking about technology and how to use it to change the way people
>> think ...
>>
>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > a rectification, Marc, I was speaking for myself, not for the list ....
>> >
>> > the p2p-f wiki lists all kind of p2p infrastructural technologies ...
>> >
>> > it's something I (we?) support in general, but not as an obligation for
>> > all
>> > members to abide by ...
>> >
>> > Michel
>> >
>> >
>> > On 5/10/09, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> <<
>> >> it's "why a definitely non-p2p way to do email
>> >> > is much more popular on a pro-p2p list?"
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >> Marco:
>> >>
>> >> What is the purpose of the list?
>> >>
>> >> If the list's purpose was to promote the use of p2p technologies as
>> >> well as p2p paradigms (beyond technologies) then you would expect the
>> >> list members to care a lot. But as Michel put it in his preceding
>> >> reply (in this thread) the purpose of the list is focused on
>> >> discussing and promoting p2p paradigms but not technologies (or as
>> >> Michel put it: driving the car and not worrying about the motor [and I
>> >> add: not worrying whether it's a p2p motor or a centralized motor or a
>> >> hybrid])
>> >>
>> >> I think this is a taste issue. People can make all sorts of arguments
>> >> (like I do, like we all do) to justify their choices but at the end of
>> >> the day it's a taste issue not an objective thing.
>> >>
>> >> I'm fine if this list's taste is to drive the car and not worry about
>> >> the motor. That's because at least the car is being driven in the
>> >> right direction and the argument is: whatever motor does the best job
>> >> NOW, TODAY, because we need to get to our destination.
>> >>
>> >> To people like me and you, it seems that we care about the motor as
>> >> much as the car and the destination.  Maybe others care deeply about
>> >> the motor, but I hear Michel saying it's all physics to him and his
>> >> goal is to get to the destination.
>> >>
>> >> So I have no problem with it. However, being an engineer I can't
>> >> ignore physics and mechanics since to me the "design" of the
>> >> technology we use is an integral part of the belief system and the
>> >> vision, inseparable.
>> >>
>> >> Marc
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 12:15 AM, M. Fioretti <mfioretti at nexaima.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > On Sat, May 09, 2009 23:45:33 PM +0200, Kris ROOSE wrote:
>> >> >> Ryan and Marc,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I don/t understand you:
>> >> >
>> >> > Any good email client automatically includes an attribution line (the
>> >> > one above starting with "On Sat, May 09...") which leaves a very
>> >> > clear
>> >> > and very fast to read track (EVEN when it's a quote of a quote of a
>> >> > quote!!!) of who said what. That feature, and of course proper
>> >> > trimming/quoting, exist to avoid misattributions and
>> >> > misunderstandings. The person who "criticized" Gmail sorting it's
>> >> > only
>> >> > me (Marco), not Marc Fawzi nor Ryan.
>> >> >
>> >> >> all my thousands of Gmails are immediately sorted by date... and by
>> >> >> much more than that
>> >> >
>> >> > I am not a Gmail user. I got an account years ago, but only played
>> >> > with it a bit. More recently, I played again a little bit, with
>> >> > permission, into some friends Gmail accounts. In both cases, I didn't
>> >> > find or recognize any of the ways to sort messages (recipient,
>> >> > sender,
>> >> > date, size, etc...) which are pre-built in almost all other clients I
>> >> > know of, so I got the impression that Gmail is really limited and
>> >> > quite below average from this specific point of view. A quick search
>> >> > shows I'm not alone in this:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=7e8728af01fea293&hl=en
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2007/07/18/the-one-thing-gmail-really-needs-and-has-never-been-done/
>> >> > http://www.thisisgoingtobebig.com/2005/06/gmail_sorting_i.html
>> >> >
>> >> > Since the 1st link is... three days old, I gather that the sorting
>> >> > limits denounced in the two other links are still there. For **me**
>> >> > they would be enough not to use Gmail, but no problem with others who
>> >> > don't care, really. Please note that my main question/curiosity isn't
>> >> > "does Gmail suck or not", it's "why a definitely non-p2p way to do
>> >> > email
>> >> > is much more popular on a pro-p2p list?"
>> >> >
>> >> > Marco
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on
>> >> > how
>> >> > software is used *around*
>> >> > you:            http://digifreedom.net/node/84
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > p2presearch mailing list
>> >> > p2presearch at listcultures.org
>> >> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Marc Fawzi
>> >> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> p2presearch mailing list
>> >> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>> >> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>> > http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>> > http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>> >
>> > Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>> > http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>> > http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>> >
>> > Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>> >
>> > The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>> > http://www.shiftn.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Marc Fawzi
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>
>
>
> --
> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>
> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>
> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> http://www.shiftn.com/

-- 

Marc Fawzi
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi