[p2p-research] "Many of us will not send mail to gmail.com"

Sun May 10 16:19:56 CEST 2009

Hi Marc,

are you familiar with initiaives such as Rise Up ? (alternative mailing list
provider for activist movements)

Michel

On 5/10/09, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm sure there are many more opinions about this subject ... within
> this list and in general... but majority of people are happy when
> technology just works, not too concerned about underlying philosophy
> especially when they're carrying out the fight on a different level.
>
> I think it's just a matter of personal inclination... I can't separate
> the technology from the mission because I've spent most of my life
> thinking about technology and how to use it to change the way people
> think ...
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > a rectification, Marc, I was speaking for myself, not for the list ....
> >
> > the p2p-f wiki lists all kind of p2p infrastructural technologies ...
> >
> > it's something I (we?) support in general, but not as an obligation for
> all
> > members to abide by ...
> >
> > Michel
> >
> >
> > On 5/10/09, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> <<
> >> it's "why a definitely non-p2p way to do email
> >> > is much more popular on a pro-p2p list?"
> >> >>
> >>
> >> Marco:
> >>
> >> What is the purpose of the list?
> >>
> >> If the list's purpose was to promote the use of p2p technologies as
> >> well as p2p paradigms (beyond technologies) then you would expect the
> >> list members to care a lot. But as Michel put it in his preceding
> >> reply (in this thread) the purpose of the list is focused on
> >> discussing and promoting p2p paradigms but not technologies (or as
> >> Michel put it: driving the car and not worrying about the motor [and I
> >> add: not worrying whether it's a p2p motor or a centralized motor or a
> >> hybrid])
> >>
> >> I think this is a taste issue. People can make all sorts of arguments
> >> (like I do, like we all do) to justify their choices but at the end of
> >> the day it's a taste issue not an objective thing.
> >>
> >> I'm fine if this list's taste is to drive the car and not worry about
> >> the motor. That's because at least the car is being driven in the
> >> right direction and the argument is: whatever motor does the best job
> >> NOW, TODAY, because we need to get to our destination.
> >>
> >> To people like me and you, it seems that we care about the motor as
> >> much as the car and the destination.  Maybe others care deeply about
> >> the motor, but I hear Michel saying it's all physics to him and his
> >> goal is to get to the destination.
> >>
> >> So I have no problem with it. However, being an engineer I can't
> >> ignore physics and mechanics since to me the "design" of the
> >> technology we use is an integral part of the belief system and the
> >> vision, inseparable.
> >>
> >> Marc
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 12:15 AM, M. Fioretti <mfioretti at nexaima.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> > On Sat, May 09, 2009 23:45:33 PM +0200, Kris ROOSE wrote:
> >> >> Ryan and Marc,
> >> >>
> >> >> I don/t understand you:
> >> >
> >> > Any good email client automatically includes an attribution line (the
> >> > one above starting with "On Sat, May 09...") which leaves a very clear
> >> > and very fast to read track (EVEN when it's a quote of a quote of a
> >> > quote!!!) of who said what. That feature, and of course proper
> >> > trimming/quoting, exist to avoid misattributions and
> >> > misunderstandings. The person who "criticized" Gmail sorting it's only
> >> > me (Marco), not Marc Fawzi nor Ryan.
> >> >
> >> >> all my thousands of Gmails are immediately sorted by date... and by
> >> >> much more than that
> >> >
> >> > I am not a Gmail user. I got an account years ago, but only played
> >> > with it a bit. More recently, I played again a little bit, with
> >> > permission, into some friends Gmail accounts. In both cases, I didn't
> >> > find or recognize any of the ways to sort messages (recipient, sender,
> >> > date, size, etc...) which are pre-built in almost all other clients I
> >> > know of, so I got the impression that Gmail is really limited and
> >> > quite below average from this specific point of view. A quick search
> >> > shows I'm not alone in this:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=7e8728af01fea293&hl=en
> >> >
> >> >
> http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2007/07/18/the-one-thing-gmail-really-needs-and-has-never-been-done/
> >> > http://www.thisisgoingtobebig.com/2005/06/gmail_sorting_i.html
> >> >
> >> > Since the 1st link is... three days old, I gather that the sorting
> >> > limits denounced in the two other links are still there. For **me**
> >> > they would be enough not to use Gmail, but no problem with others who
> >> > don't care, really. Please note that my main question/curiosity isn't
> >> > "does Gmail suck or not", it's "why a definitely non-p2p way to do
> email
> >> > is much more popular on a pro-p2p list?"
> >> >
> >> > Marco
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on
> how
> >> > software is used *around* you:
> http://digifreedom.net/node/84
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > p2presearch mailing list
> >> > p2presearch at listcultures.org
> >> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Marc Fawzi
> >> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> p2presearch mailing list
> >> p2presearch at listcultures.org
> >> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> > http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> > http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >
> > Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
> > http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
> > http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
> >
> > Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
> >
> > The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> > http://www.shiftn.com/
>
>
>
> --
>
> Marc Fawzi
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>

-- 
Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com

Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20090510/b97ce01a/attachment-0001.html>