[p2p-research] 21st Century Socialism: Eleven Talking Points

Mon May 4 06:43:11 CEST 2009

Hi Sam,

I face similar difficulties,

socialism can mean many many different things, but it is essentially a 19 cy
social ideology that has been deeply discredited by 20th century failings
...

this is one of the reasons that I use the peer to peer narrative and steer
away from any language in that tradition

however, we have to realize that great numbers of people still are
influenced by these or similar ideologies, including many sincere people
striving earnestly for a just and more equal world,

so my take is that peer to peer forces should engage in open dialogue with
socialist-inspired movements, clearly indicate what is desirable or not from
our point of view, focus on common points; such a dialogue would not be
exclusive, and we can talk and work in this way with many other social
movements, see my current interest in neotraditional approaches for example,

Some p2p-compatible, socialist-inspired approaches below,

Michel

Some interesting approaches:

Magnus Marsdal on Socialist Individualism

Socialist Individualism <http://p2pfoundation.net/Socialist_Individualism>.
Essay by Magnus Marsdal.

URL = http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/marxind2.html

"socialism is defined as the democratic management of society’s vital
resources (“the economy‿). Under Stalinism, undeniably the economy was
subject to explicitly political governance, but no-one would ever label that
political economy “democratic‿. It belongs at the far end of our axis, with
meagre individual liberties. Now, notice how the nearest challenger of the
Evil Empire in this respect is unrestrained capitalism! Market liberalism
weakens the position of the working individual on the labour market as far
as it can, and does pretty much the same with the political bodies of
democracy. Under the welfare state there are substantial “socialist inroads‿
in the capitalist system. This partial protection from “the tyranny of the
rich‿ strengthens the position of the individual.

When the historical advancement of democracy is seen like this, the current
position of “the new movements‿—arguing that “another world is possible‿ and
at the same time fiercely defending the existing welfare state
arrangements—becomes less paradoxical. Neoliberalism is perceived as
reactionary. The foes of the welfare state are truly “winding the clock
backwards‿. Therefore we fight to defend what already exists. But there is
something to fight for beyond the instable truce of the so-called mixed
economy of Keynesian times. Therefore, we also fight for what does not yet
exist."

Bruno Theret, on the tradition of 'civil socialism'

The peer to peer movement differs from the traditional socialist movement in
that it does not rely on the state, but on autonomous developments within
civil society. Such a movement was prefigured by what Bruno Theret calls the
tradition of civil socialism. Very interesting French-language essay.

The essay by Bruno Theret is at
http://fr.pekea-fr.org/?p=11&c=2-3-Theret.html

Theret also refers to three historical traditions necessary to develop these
ideas further: 1) the pre-marxist socialism of Pierre Leroux, very strong in
the revolutions of 1848; 2) the federal or guild socialism of Karl Polanly,
author of the landmark book The Great Transformation; 3) the contemporary
neo-communautarian theory of Michael Walzer.

On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan,
>
> Your some of your instincts seem right to me.
>
> My point of view, in my own words:
>
> In mass industrial society, people pursued a mass socialism.
>
> In pluralistic complex-adpative free societies, people recognize that all
> change begins on local levels, and people are able to recognize how to
> operate on *multiple-scales* throughout the systems they are a part of.
> People recognize they are a part of a system in the first place.
>
> Cooperation is *voluntary*, not forced or coerced. Laws are recognized for
> what they really are: agreements between people, which can be changed, and
> in which participants have equal influence.
>
> However, so long as the environments people live in still contains
> significant amounts of the previous mass culture paradigms, then it will
> still seem necessary to some people to address problems from within the mass
> culture problem solving space. Therefore, the fastest way to change is to
> work at changing he environment and choices people have available for
> solving their problems of existence. Instant eradication of mass culture
> problem solving is not realistic. From my perspective, I can only make
> *real* choices that are demonstrable alternatives to existing ways of
> solving problems.
>
> I submit as proof that people have theorized and innovated for years around
> newer ways of solving problems. So, many people respond that the areas
> myself and colleagues are working in are "nothing new". The point is not to
> create something "new". Yet, the existing ideas never took off, not because
> they were not plausible or any good, but because no one ever tried to push
> them to the point of being real alternatives to many people within a given
> environment. This is what is happening *now*.  Myself and others are
> evolving a diverse set of both new and old ideas into viable alternatives
> within existing Urban, Suburban and Rural environs.
>
> The point I am trying to make is that sometimes it is more *expedient* and
> *effective* to make a new way of living within the existing environment,
> where the idea of socialist revolution is more like we need to bulldoze and
> build anew, and make everyone go along with it whether they want to or not.
> At least that is how I perceive it in my mind.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My worries about socialism:
>>
>> 1. It seems to have failed too many times.
>>
>> 2. It seems to often bring out authoritarianism -- and I cannot agree to
>> any version of that.  Cuba, North Korea, even China to me are social
>> abominations despite some successes and admirable traits.  It is vital to
>> state upfront what is and what isn't compulsory.
>>
>> 3. It is too often statist (see point 2).
>>
>> 4. It doesn't allocate goods efficiently.
>>
>> 5. It tends to rely too much on centralized planning and controls.
>>
>> 6. The word itself doesn't connote anything in particular any longer.  Who
>> is and who isn't socialist?  Is Sweden socialist?  Cuba?  Why or why not?
>>
>> 7. Who sets socialism's priorities?  How is socialism governed optimally?
>> Does it remove the local?
>>
>> 8. People seem to not be spontaneously socialist.  Earlier this year there
>> was a set of discussions on "cul-de-sac communes."  I didn't see a rush to
>> start them.  Why not?  Sure, I'd love to borrow some tools from my neighbor,
>> but what are the costs and commitments?  How do I dissolve my bonds if I
>> want to?
>>
>> 9. Can't we be as socialist as we want through civil society organizations
>> already?
>>
>>
>> Ryan Lanham
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:48 AM, Kevin Carson <
>> free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent to you by Kevin Carson via Google Reader:
>>>
>>>
>>> 21st Century Socialism: Eleven Talking Points<http://www.solidarityeconomy.net/2009/04/30/21st-century-socialism-eleven-talking-points/>
>>>  via SolidarityEconomy.net <http://www.solidarityeconomy.net> by Editors
>>> on 4/30/09
>>>
>>> [image: May Day]<http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r349/carld717/red-flag.jpg>
>>> *Eleven Talking Points* *On 21st Century Socialism*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *By Carl Davidson*
>>>
>>> SolidarityEconomy.net <http://solidarityeconomy.net>
>>>
>>> May 1, 2009
>>>
>>> *The current discussion around socialism in left and progressive circles
>>> in the U.S. needs to be placed in a more substantive arena. This is an
>>> effort to do so. I take note in advance of the criticism that the following
>>> eleven working hypotheses are rather dry and formal. But in light of the
>>> faux ‘socialisms’ bandied about in the headlines and sound bytes of the mass
>>> media in the wake of the financial crisis, especially the absurd claim in
>>> the media of rightwing populism that the Obama administration is Marxist and
>>> socialist, I felt something a little more rigorous might be helpful.
>>> Obviously, criticism and commentary is invited.*
>>>
>>> *1. Socialism’s fundamental building blocks are already present in US
>>> society. *The means of production, for the most part, are fully
>>> developed and in fact are stagnating under the political domination of
>>> finance capital. The US labor force, again for the most part, is highly
>>> skilled at all levels of production, management, marketing, and finance. The
>>> kernels of socialist organization are also scattered across the landscape in
>>> cooperatives, socially organized human services, and centralized and
>>> widespread mass means of many-to-many communication and supply/demand data
>>> management. Many earlier attempts at socialism did not have these
>>> advantages.
>>>
>>> *2.* *Socialism is first of all a democratic political system where the
>>> interests and organizations of the working class and its allies have
>>> attained and hold the preponderance of political power and thus play the
>>> critical leading role in society.* It is still a class society, but one
>>> in a protracted transition, over hundreds of years, to a future classless
>>> society where exploiting class privileges are abolished and classes and
>>> class distinctions generally wither away, both nationally and globally. So
>>> socialism will have classes for some time, including some capitalists,
>>> because it will be a mixed economy, with both public and private ownership,
>>> even as the balance shifts over time. Family farmers and small proprietors
>>> will both exist and flourish alongside cooperatives. Innovative 'high road'
>>> entrepreneurial privately-held firms will compete with publically-own firms,
>>> and encouraged to create new wealth within an environmentally regulated and
>>> progressively taxed system. Past efforts to build socialism have suffered
>>> from aggravated conflict between and among popular classes and lack of
>>> emphasis on building wide unity among the people.
>>>
>>> *3.* *Socialism at the base is a transitional economic system anchored
>>> in the social mode of production* brought into being by capitalist
>>> development over several centuries. Its economic system is necessarily
>>> mixed, and makes use of markets, especially in goods and services, which are
>>> regulated, especially regarding the environment. But capital markets and
>>> wage-labor markets can be sharply restricted and even abolished in due time.
>>> Markets are a function of scarcity, and all economies of any scale in a time
>>> of scarcity have them, even if they are disguised as 'black' or 'tiered'
>>> markets. In addition to regulated markets, socialism will also feature
>>> planning, especially on the macro level of infrastructure development, in
>>> investment of public assets and funds, and other arenas where markets have
>>> failed. Planning will especially be required to face the challenges of
>>> uneven development and harsh inequalities on a global scale, as well as the
>>> challenge of moving from a carbon and uranium based energy system to one
>>> based on renewable green energy sources. The socialisms of the last century
>>> fell or stagnated due to failure to develop the proper interplay between
>>> plans and markets.
>>>
>>> *4.* *Socialism will be anchored in public and worker ownership of the
>>> main productive forces and natural resources.* This can be achieved by
>>> various means: a) buying out major failing corporations at penny stock
>>> status, then leasing them back to the unions and having the workers in each
>>> firm—one worker, one vote—run them, b) workers directly taking ownership and
>>> control over failed and abandoned factories, c) eminent domain seizures of
>>> resources and factories, with compensation, otherwise required for the
>>> public good, and d) public funding for startups of worker-owned cooperative
>>> businesses. Socialism will also require public ownership of most finance
>>> capital institutions, including bringing the Federal Reserve under the
>>> Treasury Department and federal ownership. Lease payments from publically
>>> owned firms will go into a public investment fund, which will in turn lend
>>> money to community and worker owned banks and credit unions. A stock market
>>> will still exist for remaining publically traded firms and investments
>>> abroad, but will be strictly controlled. A stock transfer tax will be
>>> implemented. Gambling in derivatives will be outlawed. Fair trade agreements
>>> with other countries will be on a bilateral basis for mutual benefit.
>>>
>>> *5.* *Socialism will require democracy in the workplace of public firms
>>> and encourage it in all places of work*. Workers have the right to
>>> independent unions to protect their social and daily interests, in addition
>>> to their rights as worker-owners in the governance of their firms. In
>>> addition to direct democracy at the plant level, the organizations of the
>>> working class also participate in the wider public planning process and thus
>>> democratically shape the direction of ongoing development on the macro level
>>> as well. Under socialism the government will also serve as the
>>> employer-of-last-resort*.* Minimum living-wage jobs will be provided for
>>> all who want to work. Socialism is committed to genuine full employment.
>>> Every citizen will have a genuine right to work.
>>>
>>> *6.* *Socialism will largely be gained by the working class and it
>>> allies winning the battle for democracy in politics and civil society at
>>> large*, especially taking down the structures and backward laws of
>>> class, gender and racial privilege. Women have equal rights with men, and
>>> minority nationalities have equal rights with the majority. It also defends
>>> equal rights and self-determination among all nations across the globe; no
>>> nation can itself be fully free when it oppresses another. Socialism will
>>> encourage public citizenship and mass participation at every level, with
>>> open information systems, public education and transparency in its
>>> procedures. It will need a true multiparty system, with fusion voting,
>>> proportional representation and instant runoff. Given the size and diversity
>>> of our country, it is highly unlikely that any single party could adequately
>>> represent all popular interests; working class and progressive organizations
>>> will need to form common fronts. All trends are guaranteed the right to
>>> speak, organize, petition and stand for election. With public financing as
>>> an option, socialism can restrict the role of wealth in elections, moving
>>> away from a system, in effect, of “one dollar, one vote” and toward a system
>>> more reflective of “one person, one vote.” These are the structural measures
>>> that can allow the majority of the people, especially the working class and
>>> its allies, to secure the political leadership of government and instruments
>>> of the state by democratic means, unless these are sabotaged by reaction.
>>> Some socialisms of the past used only limited formal democracy or simply
>>> used administrative means to implement goals, with the failure of both the
>>> goals and the overall projects. Americans are not likely to be interested in
>>> systems with elections where only one party runs and no one can lose.
>>>
>>> *7.* *Socialism will be a state power, specifically a democratic
>>> political order with a representative government.* But the government
>>> and state components of the current order, corrupted with the thousand
>>> threads connecting it to old ruling class, will have to be broken up and
>>> replaced with new ones that are transparent, honest and serve the majority
>>> of the people. The US Constitution and Bill of Rights can still be the
>>> initial basic organizing principle for a socialist government and state. The
>>> democratic rights it has gained over the years will be protected and
>>> enhanced. Government will also be needed to organize and finance the social
>>> development benefitting the people and the environment already mentioned;
>>> but the state power behind the law will be required to compel the honest use
>>> of resources and to protect people from criminal elements, individual and
>>> organized. Forces who try to overturn and reverse the new socialist
>>> government illegally and in violation of the Constitution will not be able
>>> to do so; they will be broken up and brought to justice. Our society will
>>> need a state power for some time to come, even as its form changes. Still,
>>> government power has limits; under socialism sovereignty resides in the
>>> people themselves, and the powers of any government are necessarily
>>> restricted and subordinate to the universal and natural rights of all
>>> humankind. Attempts to ignore or reject these principles have severely
>>> harmed socialist governments and movements in the past.
>>>
>>> *8.* *Socialism will be a society in harmony with the natural
>>> environment*, understanding that all economies are subsets of the
>>> eco-system and ignore it at their peril. In its economics, there are no such
>>> things as “externalities” to be pushed off downstream or to future
>>> generations. The nature of pending planetary disasters necessitates a high
>>> level of planning. We need to redesign communities, promote healthier foods,
>>> and rebuild sustainable agriculture—all on a global scale with high design,
>>> but on a human scale with mass participation of communities in diverse
>>> localities. Socialism will treasure and preserve the diversity of nature’s
>>> bounty and end the practice of genetic modification to control the human
>>> food supply. We need growth, but intelligent growth in quality and wider
>>> knowledge with a lighter environmental footprint. A socialism that simply
>>> reproduces the wasteful expansion of an earlier capitalism creates more
>>> problems than it solves.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *9*. *Socialism values equality, and will be a society of far greater
>>> equality of opportunity*, and far less economic inequality. In addition
>>> to equal rights before the law, all citizens and residents will have
>>> equitable access to a “universal toolbox” of paid-up free public education
>>> for all who want to learn, for as far as they want and are able to go;
>>> universal public pre-school care; a minimum income, as a social wage, for
>>> all who create value, whether in a workplace or otherwise; our notions of
>>> socially useful work, activity that creates value, has to be expanded beyond
>>> market definitions. Parents raising children, students learning skills,
>>> elders educating and passing traditions to younger generations--all these
>>> create value that society can in turn reward. Universal single-payer health
>>> care with retirement benefits at the level of a living wage is critical to
>>> start. Since everyone has access to employment, the existing welfare system
>>> can be abolished; individuals will be free to choose the career path and
>>> level of income targets they desire, or not. There are no handouts for those
>>> able to work, but there are also no irrational barriers to achievement.
>>>
>>> *10.* *Socialism is a society where religion can be freely practiced,*or not, and no religion is given any special advantages over any other.
>>> Religious freedom remains a fundamental tenant of socialism, but naturally
>>> neither its practitioners nor anyone else can deny anyone the benefits and
>>> protection of civil and criminal law, especially to women and children.
>>>
>>> *11.* *Socialism will require an institution of armed forces*. Their
>>> mission will be to defend the people and secure their interests against any
>>> enemies and help in times of natural disasters. It will not be their task to
>>> expand markets abroad and defend the property abroad of the exploiting
>>> classes. Soldiers will be allowed to organize and petition for the redress
>>> of grievances. Armed forces also include local police, under community
>>> control, as well as a greatly reduced prison system, based on the principle
>>> of restorative justice, and mainly for the protection of society from
>>> individuals inflicted with violent pathologies and criminal practices.
>>> Non-violent conflict resolution and community-based rehabilitation will be
>>> encouraged, but the need for some coercive means will remain for some time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *[Carl Davidson is webmaster for SolidarityEconomy.net, a national
>>> committee member of the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and
>>> Socialism, and a coordinating committee member of the US Solidarity Economy
>>> Network. Together with Jerry Harris, he is author of 'Cyber-Radicalism: A
>>> New Left for a Global Age, available at **
>>> http://stores.lulu.com/changemaker* <http://stores.lulu.com/changemaker>
>>> * If you like this article, go to 'Keep On Keepin' On at **
>>> http://carldavidson.blogspot.com* <http://carldavidson.blogspot.com>*and make use of the PayPal button. Email him at
>>> carld717 at gmail.com ]*
>>>
>>>
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>
>
> --
> Sam Rose
> Social Synergy
> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
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>
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> Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."
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