[p2p-research] the abundance of art

Mon May 4 00:25:38 CEST 2009

And another way to say it is:

Art captures feeling and is the product of our reflexivity (which is the
result of our body responding to sigals/messages from our brain, senses, the
place/architecture we're in, the air we breathe, the water we drink, the
food we eat, etc)

Science only captures messages from our brain and that's it.

It is logical that since art is more holistic than science that art is more
permanent than science and that is exactly what we see. Science (and maths
too as well as logic itself) keep disrupting and contradicting itself while
art retains its value over hundreds of thousands of years and possibly
millions of years... At some point, of course, a certain art work generated
millions of years ago would become indistinguishable from natural
noise/scenery and such is the work of nature.

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 2:48 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:

> replace "science is always disrupting itself" with "contradicting or
> reversing or undermining itself"
>
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The only thing, Paola, is that works of art last forever (if not for
>> physical decay) while science is always disrupting itself...
>>
>> I would say art is far more resilient than science and thus more real.
>>
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:06 AM, <paola.dimaio at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yet, Science is the pre-supposed knowledge, the constraint barriers, and
>>>> environment out of which Artistic creation attempts to evolve. Art is how
>>>> you first try to see beyond existing known science.
>>>>
>>>> So, there is a symbiotic relationship between Art and Science  that is
>>>> often un-acknowledged in much of existing academic thinking.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think both are distinct ways to know the world, possibly different
>>> parts of it, and for different purposes, but I would definiltey agree that
>>> there is some scope for complementarity
>>>
>>> ps.
>>> I should have mentioned that the mother of the artist in question who
>>> owned  the clock, which after the creative transformation had lost its
>>> intended functionality, was not interested in uniqueness as such
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 5:38 AM, <paola.dimaio at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and you see you what I mean?  The light reflecting from a [future]
>>>>>> perfect replica will be exactly the same as the light reflecting from the
>>>>>> original from all angles and degrees... so why would the original be more
>>>>>> vauable. It's human nature
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I know what you mean, that due to our human nature we attach a
>>>>> higher value to an original, than to its copies even when absolutely
>>>>> perfectly the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> For me though, an original piece of art is not just the product, the
>>>>> exterior visible shape that we can see, but an intention, a 'first' a
>>>>> breakthrough of logical scheme perhaps, a step that has never been taken
>>>>> before, a way that reality has never been conceived or seen as before, and
>>>>> as such ti vibrates at a unique frequency. A real original piece of art, and
>>>>> I have seen only a few, has an essence that is not reproducible, because it
>>>>> was generated by unique circumstances, in a unique space/time conjunction,
>>>>> which was expressed in a unique/unprecedented brilliant form, and captured
>>>>> sculpted or painted and will stay there forever. So what I am trying to say
>>>>> is that the original and the copy are definitely not the same for me, even
>>>>> when the latter is perfect. I would be interested to  explore the
>>>>> possibility that its all in the mind though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Abundance is perhaps donating it to a foundation, making it accessible
>>>>> free of charge to everyone forever and having chairs next to it so that
>>>>> people can actually sit nearby, and allowing copies to be made and
>>>>> circulated.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 2:03 AM, <paola.dimaio at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems that, despite art itself being intrinsically abundant, the
>>>>>>> physical products of 'high art' (not the digital product), e.g. a Picasso
>>>>>>> painting, are given some kind of scarce quality by people (a spiritual,
>>>>>>> emotional or superstitious value) that makes them rare (or special) even if
>>>>>>> they can be replicated ad infinitum and in an exact manner .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> actually, I am not sure about replicability
>>>>>> Having seen a few original masterpieces, and their copies, a very
>>>>>> special energy and strenght emanates from the former
>>>>>> My definition of a work of art is that it is a unique, and
>>>>>> communicates some unique in a unique way
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this is why, I think, they are placed in public galleries where
>>>>>> everyone can enjoy them,  I will be interested in contrasting abundance vs
>>>>>> uniqueness in art, and maybe we could organise an exhibition one day about
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Definitely related to p2p. The issue of why we create artificial
>>>>>>> scarcity or why we seek it is core to the p2p economy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 5:54 PM, <paola.dimaio at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> oh yes, found it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (sorry if not directly relevant to p2p, but definitely
>>>>>>>> a collective, and part of the commons imho)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> just for completeness
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the one i saw in Germany years ago was the Prinzhorn collection
>>>>>>>> http://www.prinzhorn.uni-hd.de/beispiele/himmel_eng.shtml
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> discussed here  in a broader context
>>>>>>>> http://www.gseart.com/exhibitions.asp?ExhID=455
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 1:35 AM, <paola.dimaio at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I saw an exhibition about ten year or so ago, not sure where
>>>>>>>>> but I seem to remember Germany, there is also an exhibition book
>>>>>>>>> going around,
>>>>>>>>> it was the most beautiful art work made by psychiatric patients
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not sure its the same or just similar
>>>>>>>>> but its on in London, lots of interesting links also to be found on
>>>>>>>>> the web
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.wellcomecollection.org/press/2009/WTX053734.htm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even if your,re clinically insane you can make great art
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Paola Di Maio,
>>>>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marc Fawzi
>>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>>>>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Paola Di Maio,
>>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Fawzi
>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Paola Di Maio,
>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sam Rose
>>>> Social Synergy
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Long ago, we brought you all this fire.
>>>> Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paola Di Maio,
>>> ****************************************
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Marc Fawzi
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Marc Fawzi
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>

-- 

Marc Fawzi
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
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