[p2p-research] Venture Communism or social capitalism

[paola.dimaio at gmail.com]

>
> I personally feel limited by words, and logic,
> although they are great existing tools.
> I sometimes find it fun to play with them,
> but more and more appreciate the non-linear intuitive perceptions,
> which are more difficult to express in a more linear logical process.


same here too, but we end up sounding a bit freakish, wich i take the
liberty cause its saturday afternoon, and the output of this list is non
normative

(and just hope that the people we exchange with on the logical list during
the week, do not read our seemingly disconnected attempts to verbalise and
conclude that indeed a split personality can maintain hidden functionality
during weekdays)

>
>
> I look forward to some kind of ( immersive, emergent, spatial ? )
> post-symbolic language that could enable much greater synthesis.


look no further!! Art, Music, Poetry are just that, although they are not
used as such, andend up becoming purely cosmetic and entertainment, real art
is power of expression and communication beyond verbal language

advertisers are the only one making use of that power

It took me a while to understand cubism, but when I worked it out, the
visible/natural  reality seemed a bit clearer

>
>
> Some kind of big heuristic map with infinite dimensions that enables to see
> all relations with all relations, at infinite levels of abstractions, browse
> them, and build on them, enabling comparisons of dimensions of meaning
> relations.


try picasso,

>
>
> In such form of expression, especially when a great number of data bases
> with a great diversity of relations would be connected,
>
> one would could "decide" to "use" and build information all together and in
> a more integral way, as every relation can be seen as having an impact on
> all other relations in the dimensions of meaning of such post symbolic
> language. ( in which processes, and the consicousness processes are being
> experienced, could also be seen - I can send some axioms I dreamed of to
> anyone interested )


yes, let s bring the expressive power of art and music into our language
lets get free from the logical and mathematical constraints , yippie...

although not everyone may be able to follow immediately, hopefolly everyone
will enjoy more in the end....


only atoms and space exist anyway, the rest is just opinion (democritus was
it?)


>
>
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 8:49 PM, <paola.dimaio at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dante
>> thanks for picking up on issues
>> indeed, many questions come up from unpacking the thread.
>> more than I can physically handle
>>
>> I am glad you see that possibly we view the world through a karmic lens,
>> and it is in light that I try to minimize my attachment to ideas and words
>>
>> When I was a teenager someone read to me a citation of I dont remember
>> who, i think claude levy strauss, discussing how words ending in -ism and
>> -ist tend to portray a certain type of idea, an exasperation of a concept,
>>
>> roughly as mentioned below
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/-ism
>>
>> If someone knows what i am talking about and could send pointers would be
>> appreciate
>>
>> I dont know where we mark the line between idea and ideology,
>> and I am sure there is an interesting discussion there
>>
>> I think we see how politics and religion are manipulated, how politics
>> become a self sustaining machine and just a self feeding beast,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I often met people that try hard not to show any relation to "politics",
>>> sometimes as they try to escape from any potential conflicting aspect
>>> related to power.
>>> ( third chakra ? )
>>>
>>
>> depends where you want to direct your energies toward
>>
>>
>>>
>>> in relation to your last mail , citing you
>>>
>>> " take a stance when I cant avoid it  "
>>> " I strive for an ideology free world "
>>>
>>> That sounds, from what I feel from it, like a stance and an ideology in
>>> itself :-)
>>
>>
>> hard to tell what is and what isnt, but  everything can be labelled as
>> anything else to serve a purpose, and become an instrument of propaganda.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As for communist states in china and vietnam, as far as I know and in the
>>> way I perceive it,
>>> it are power structures using the ideology of communism. Some also
>>> combine the ideology of capitalism and communism at the same time, as long
>>> as it serves their ( non-democratic ? ) interests.
>>
>>
>> i think the questions asked earlier, we need to define what we mean by the
>> terms we use. I am afraid that these good people actually are pretty that
>> they are communists, and I will leave that to you to work out
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps it might be of interest to examine points of view related to
>>> power structures in any system.
>>
>>
>> yes, power strucutre in any system is interesting
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would be interested in having access to more resources in such field of
>>> comparison, although there are already some comparisons between systems on
>>> p2pf wiki ?
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Governance
>>>
>>> the p2p meme, I have the impression, can in itself also be seen as an
>>> ideology.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology
>>>
>>> From my point of view, distributed/p2p systems would ideally be used to
>>> enable emergent autonomy of peers compared to any other specific node in the
>>> system,
>>> through distributed inter-dependence.
>>
>>
>> yep
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yet it might also be interesting to examine potential cases where a
>>> distributed p2p approach would go in favor of increased inequality of access
>>> to resources and opportunities...
>>
>>
>>  yep
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It opens up the whole question of property.
>>> What property ideologies best support p2p emergence and sustainability ?
>>>
>>> ... http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Property
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> absolutely.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Paola Di Maio,
****************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20090502/0b8e6d3e/attachment-0001.html>