[p2p-research] Obama's reversal of promises = pathological lying?

Mon Mar 23 19:27:34 CET 2009

Hi Marc,

Item 1 seems to me to be a holdover of the securitization after Bush ...

similarly to the failure of New Labour in that regard, the new admin may
feel that it cannot pull back on some measures, for fear of opening
accusations of 'softness' ?

of course, these forces may also believe themselves in the need for a
stronger security state, especially in the context of expected social
unrest,

Michel

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 1:19 AM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, that all makes sense and I support it too in my general outlook and my
> long term stance but I am triggered by two very specific things:
>
> 1. No fly listed = terrorist. This is similar to what happened in the past
> that led to the rise of totalitarian governments. It is in the extreme.
> Average Americans are on that list. People born here whose only crime is
> that they exercised there right under the Constitution for peaceful
> assembly.  This is very very wrong and his Chief of Staff should be fired
> for asserting that they will implement this.
>
> 2. The civilian security force and the basic training requirements. This is
> again taken from the same playbook as #1. I have seen this kind of
> preparation happen before major wars, not just for the heck of it or to be
> "prepared."  Why don't they just say prepare for war?
>
> I am very triggered by #1 and #2 because they represent an established
> pattern for me, per personal experience, which I can shed light on some
> other time... when I'm less triggered.
>
> But this mix of conspiracy paranoia with serious dangerous trends is not
> helpful to anyone. Someone should put Alex Jones behind bars or just get him
> to shut up. Someone more level headed should be in charge of pointing out
> calmly and rationally that the above pattern has been observed in other
> countries prior to major wars. I can do some research to expand beyond the
> two countries I'm familiar with and the two major wars that followed the
> establishment of civilian security force and basic training requirement, and
> I had lived in one of those two countries against my will (it took us years
> to get them to let us leave that country)
>
> I understand that correlations does not equal causation, but it's a pretty
> damn strong correlation. Why are they repeating these patterns that had been
> associated with preparation for war if they don't think that a war is coming
> at some point?
>
> Well, hey maybe I am crazy.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Marc,
>>
>> perhaps I was less disappointed because the dual nature of the Obama
>> victory was to be expected,
>>
>> what I'm saying is that 'progressive' forces should critically support the
>> obama admin against more hostile forces, while keeping pressure to bear in
>> all the cases where the Admin does not go in the sense of the promises and
>> expectations ...
>>
>> politicians are sensible to pressure, and I had a talk in Milan with
>> people given examples of how unions made him back away from certain measures
>> already ...
>>
>> in politics, there may be better, but there is always almost certainly
>> worse as well!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 1:01 AM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I was "triggered" violently by two things in that video (which is over
>>> the top for sure)
>>>
>>> 1. His Chief of Staff saying that if you're on the no fly zone then you
>>> are not one of us and you're a terrorist. My girlfriend is on the no fly
>>> list. She's born here. American blood. Her family came here in 1700s. She
>>> had participated in anti-war demonstrations. Every time we go to the airport
>>> it's one big fiasco. To say that she and people like her are terrorists is
>>> BLIND and DANGEROUS to the extreme as far as liberty goes.
>>>
>>> 2. The "civilian security force" he is advocating for and the basic
>>> training. I had lived in a country that implemented those same schemes and
>>> then got into war within 3-5 years after that. This triggers me to the
>>> extreme as I have seen such preparation come before disaster, not after.
>>>
>>> 3. Broadcasting an official presidential campaign message (on TV) that
>>> says NAFTA was a mistake then turning to the Canadians and saying that it's
>>> just campaign rhetoric.
>>>
>>> Because I am triggered by these two events, my trust in Obama is null and
>>> void.
>>>
>>> You do have a point in being level headed and applying pressure
>>> especially since he has the upper hand and will continue to have the upper
>>> hand no matter how many people get triggered and angered.
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Michel Bauwens <
>>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> no politician that I know of would be able to keep all of his promises
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> his record is mixed, and he's broken a number of them,
>>>>
>>>> but to call that pathological, i.e. singling him out as extreme, seems
>>>> over the top, as is the rest of this conspiracy video ...
>>>>
>>>> I think that a balanced judgment would require different sources and a
>>>> more level-headed judgment of what he's done or not ..
>>>>
>>>> of course, his administration stance on the RIAA and other matters is
>>>> problematic,
>>>>
>>>> a critical stance, coupled with self-organizing activity and pressure on
>>>> the administration by the social forces that elected him, would still seem
>>>> the right option,
>>>>
>>>> Michel
>>>>
>>>> 2009/3/23 marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Skip to 45:00 minutes through the video and wait for a recount of of
>>>>> Obama's reversal of promises.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
>>>>>
>>>>> Then forward to 1:01:00 and watch Greenspan saying on PBS that the
>>>>> Federal Reserve is above the President and above Congress.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seeing how pathological lying (or pathological reversal of promises)
>>>>> allowed people that I know intimately to manipulate and deceive their
>>>>> employees, partners, and investors and as a result profit in the tens of
>>>>> millions of dollars I can see clearly why Obama finds it tempting and
>>>>> irresistible to use the same method.
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, one can argue that mega success in America is achieved through
>>>>> pathological lying, manipulation and legally protected theft.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>>>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>>
>>>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>>>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>>>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>>>
>>>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>>>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>
>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>
>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>
>
>

-- 
Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com

Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/
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