[p2p-research] [p2p energy economy] Re: Open Source Manufacturing

[Michel Bauwens]

a quick response to Marc, sorry I'm not answering more when on the road ..

Marc:

I do not think open is entirely subjective and beyond definition, to that
definition would be contextual to our 'movement'

see http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Open for links to open definition,

as well as http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Standards where I keep a list
of all open licenses and how they define openness,

some kind of higher-level abstraction of these various attempts should be a
possiblity, with perhaps a gradation in degrees of openness, from relative
to 'near absolute'?

Michel

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 12:28 AM, Patrick Anderson <agnucius at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 10:06 AM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My definition of "open production system" overlaps with "renewable
> > production system", i.e. if it's not designed to renew itself then it's
> not
> > designed to be "open"
>
> I can see your study of energy-flows coming through in this viewpoint.
>  The claim is "high level" enough to be digested, but is not obvious.
>
> How about this variation: Open systems can 'exist' or 'live' or
> 'survive' without external dependencies.
>
> Or even: Open to Live.  Or (more negatively): Open or Die.
>
>
> > There are of course many meaning of "open" and I think the word itself is
> > subjective.
> >
> > That's why I believe we ought to look beyond "open" and "closed" and
> > consider the optimum model for sustainability and evolution, which would
> > have a mix of open and closed (or not so open) aspects.
> >
> > It's a complex issue indeed which is why it requires a complex answer,
> not
> > black or white like closed vs open.
> >
>
> I agree here too.
>
> Marc, you say the bigger Free Software projects are not 'open' because
> of the financial support - and from that the external control over the
> product.
>
> This is partially correct, and I want to discuss where the line is
> drawn, or in other words, how such projects are 'open' in some ways,
> while being 'closed' in other ways.  As you say, it is a complex
> question/answer.
>
>
> The difference appears to me to be a mix of naming (Trademark) and
> timing (contract against future labor).
>
>
> I think of the "sources" of a software project as the primary "Means
> of Production" for that product.  It's true they require physical
> devices (a PC) to create, store and display them, but the low price of
> this barrier-to-entry causes it to be of little importance for
> singular-ownership.
>
> Therefore, software development, even of giant-funded projects like
> Firefox and the Linux kernel are partially 'open' to anyone who can
> afford to purchase or rent a PC and sign-up for a network connection
> (ISP costs), or can afford to purchase a CD of the *CURRENT* sources
> through snail-mail.
>
>
> Now, it is true that future production specifically entitled
> "Firefox(TM) or Linux(TM) or VirtualBox(TM), etc." is temporarily
> closed during that development period, and the direction of that
> development under the control of the group owning that Trademark.
>
> But that is only true *UNTIL* they make another release.  At that
> point, the Means of Production (the sources) are again available to
> anyone receiving the Product (object code).
>
> This is the basis and reasoning for 'forking' a project.
>
> There is more to say here about the hardware and energy required to
> 'host' any new fork, but I've already talked too much about that in
> the past...
>
>
> Patrick
>



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