[p2p-research] AIG bonuses: the end of instant gratification?

Thu Mar 19 15:58:13 CET 2009

I am sure he's got a strategy not just sound bites!

Will start looking at his work!

Thanks for the note

Marc

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Umair's thought is more subtle than his summary motto may suggest ...
>
> if it's still online check his bubble generation presentations
>
> for some select postings, see heret
>
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?s=Umair+Haque
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 3:43 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That's what I needed to know, more or less.
>>
>> "*Light beats heavy. Open beats closed. Free beats paid. Good beats
>> evil."*
>>
>> It may be necessary to take sides to be effective in the short term.
>>
>> However, my own view is evolving toward this:
>>
>> An optimum mix of light and heavy is better than light or heavy.
>>
>> An optimum mix of open and closed is better than open or closed.
>>
>> An optimum mix of free and paid is better than free or paid.
>>
>> As to good and evil, they are subjective qualities so I would (personally)
>> say that an optimum mix of light and heavy, open and closed, free and paid
>> is good, not evil.
>>
>> This is not to draw a direct comparison with someone who is far more
>> effective than myself but it's the ideal/idea that some of us evolve to
>> after working in black and white (for instant effect) for a long time.
>>
>> I'm sure he would agree to take another look at his white beats black look
>> at the world.
>>
>> To pick a side is to enforce scarcity in possibilities.
>>
>> Marc
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Marc,
>>>
>>> you could summarize that Umair Haque is an advocate of a new type of
>>> 'ethical capitalism', that would replace, 'making profit at any price' with
>>> 'doing well by doing good'. However one assesses that political vision, he
>>> has a genial understanding of network logics and how they affect business.
>>> Following his blog is more than worthwhile, and I often covered his work in
>>> the p2p blog.
>>>
>>> his motto, which opens ou business section in the wiki, states:
>>>
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> *Light beats heavy. Open beats closed. Free beats paid. Good beats evil.
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   2009/3/19 marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> I don't mean to change the subject (so you may ignore) but I'm looking
>>>> at Umair's work in terms of the speed at which ideas lead to
>>>> consequences...
>>>>
>>>> Umair wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "A few weeks ago, I posted the idea<http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/haque/2009/02/the_zombieconomy_1.html>of taxing bonuses at a 99.9 % marginal rate. It sounded absurd at the time.
>>>> Now, it's reality. After House Democrats proposed doing so,"
>>>>
>>>> Did Congress pick up the idea from the Web? and specifically did Umair's
>>>> post give birth to proposed legislation in a matter of weeks?
>>>>
>>>> If someone as well known and powerful as Bill Gates goes out and says
>>>> something it does not become proposed legislation without a major lobbying
>>>> effort. So what are the circumstances that allow an idea to have such swift
>>>> consequence on reality?
>>>>
>>>> If there is actually a cause and effect link between Umair's post and
>>>> the proposed legislation re: 99.9% tax on bonuses then is it a luck game or
>>>> a matter of saying the right thing at the right time?
>>>>
>>>> My interest relates to understand how to bond ideas more closely (and
>>>> effectively) to their consequence. I think that it's a combination of acute
>>>> intuition about what to say and when to say it.
>>>>
>>>> As a footnote, I don't know what Umari's underlying principles, beliefs,
>>>> assumptions are.  It would be nice in people's social profile for them to
>>>> state their principles, beliefs, and assumptions, so communication and
>>>> exchange between the messenger and the recipient can be more effective and
>>>> specific.
>>>>
>>>> Marc
>>>>
>>>> p.s. travelling back to Seattle today, officially homeless (and lovin'
>>>> it)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 3:53 AM, Michel Bauwens <
>>>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> interesting view by umair haque:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/haque/2009/03/crisis.html
>>>>>
>>>>> - we need disincentives, not incentives
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/3/19 marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was watching this video<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/18/obama-on-aig-the-buck-sto_n_176423.html>of Obama talking about the AIG bonuses and I caught him saying that he
>>>>>> wanted the bonuses to be based on performance, as if they are based on the
>>>>>> lottery now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A worker's individual performance can only be estimated subjectively
>>>>>> in terms of how it affects the company's performance, especially for large
>>>>>> corporations where there are a great number of contributors to each gain or
>>>>>> loss and a great degree of inter-dependency between the workers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A worker's performance metric is like a peer trust metric in that it
>>>>>> is prone to being gamed/rigged both deliberately or inadvertently.  That is
>>>>>> true of any subjective metric.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only thing in Obama's statement that makes sense (which he can be
>>>>>> excused for not explaining in detail) is if we were to keep the bonuses and
>>>>>> pay them only 5 years after the worker's exit (when the worker leaves the
>>>>>> company) based on the average of the company's performance (measured  in the
>>>>>> period of the worker's employment + 5 years. For example, those who left AIG
>>>>>> prior to mid 2003 the bonuses would have much higher bonuses than those who
>>>>>> are leaving AIG now or who will leave it in the future (due to the abysmal
>>>>>> effect of the 2008 collapse on the company average performance.) It's not a
>>>>>> perfect solution but if that's what Obama meant when he said that it's not
>>>>>> fair that "people make $6M bonuses when things are good and then get bailed
>>>>>> out by taxpayers when things are bad" then I think it could lead to a more
>>>>>> fair system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>>>>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>>>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>>>
>>>>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>>>>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>>>>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>>>>
>>>>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>>>>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>
>>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>>
>>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>>
>>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>
> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>
> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> http://www.shiftn.com/
>
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