[p2p-research] AIG bonuses: the end of instant gratification?

Thu Mar 19 15:55:51 CET 2009

Umair's thought is more subtle than his summary motto may suggest ...

if it's still online check his bubble generation presentations

for some select postings, see heret

http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?s=Umair+Haque

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 3:43 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:

> That's what I needed to know, more or less.
>
> "*Light beats heavy. Open beats closed. Free beats paid. Good beats evil."
> *
>
> It may be necessary to take sides to be effective in the short term.
>
> However, my own view is evolving toward this:
>
> An optimum mix of light and heavy is better than light or heavy.
>
> An optimum mix of open and closed is better than open or closed.
>
> An optimum mix of free and paid is better than free or paid.
>
> As to good and evil, they are subjective qualities so I would (personally)
> say that an optimum mix of light and heavy, open and closed, free and paid
> is good, not evil.
>
> This is not to draw a direct comparison with someone who is far more
> effective than myself but it's the ideal/idea that some of us evolve to
> after working in black and white (for instant effect) for a long time.
>
> I'm sure he would agree to take another look at his white beats black look
> at the world.
>
> To pick a side is to enforce scarcity in possibilities.
>
> Marc
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Marc,
>>
>> you could summarize that Umair Haque is an advocate of a new type of
>> 'ethical capitalism', that would replace, 'making profit at any price' with
>> 'doing well by doing good'. However one assesses that political vision, he
>> has a genial understanding of network logics and how they affect business.
>> Following his blog is more than worthwhile, and I often covered his work in
>> the p2p blog.
>>
>> his motto, which opens ou business section in the wiki, states:
>>
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *Light beats heavy. Open beats closed. Free beats paid. Good beats evil.*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   2009/3/19 marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
>>
>>> I don't mean to change the subject (so you may ignore) but I'm looking at
>>> Umair's work in terms of the speed at which ideas lead to consequences...
>>>
>>> Umair wrote:
>>>
>>> "A few weeks ago, I posted the idea<http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/haque/2009/02/the_zombieconomy_1.html>of taxing bonuses at a 99.9 % marginal rate. It sounded absurd at the time.
>>> Now, it's reality. After House Democrats proposed doing so,"
>>>
>>> Did Congress pick up the idea from the Web? and specifically did Umair's
>>> post give birth to proposed legislation in a matter of weeks?
>>>
>>> If someone as well known and powerful as Bill Gates goes out and says
>>> something it does not become proposed legislation without a major lobbying
>>> effort. So what are the circumstances that allow an idea to have such swift
>>> consequence on reality?
>>>
>>> If there is actually a cause and effect link between Umair's post and the
>>> proposed legislation re: 99.9% tax on bonuses then is it a luck game or a
>>> matter of saying the right thing at the right time?
>>>
>>> My interest relates to understand how to bond ideas more closely (and
>>> effectively) to their consequence. I think that it's a combination of acute
>>> intuition about what to say and when to say it.
>>>
>>> As a footnote, I don't know what Umari's underlying principles, beliefs,
>>> assumptions are.  It would be nice in people's social profile for them to
>>> state their principles, beliefs, and assumptions, so communication and
>>> exchange between the messenger and the recipient can be more effective and
>>> specific.
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>> p.s. travelling back to Seattle today, officially homeless (and lovin'
>>> it)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 3:53 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> interesting view by umair haque:
>>>>
>>>> http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/haque/2009/03/crisis.html
>>>>
>>>> - we need disincentives, not incentives
>>>>
>>>> 2009/3/19 marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was watching this video<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/18/obama-on-aig-the-buck-sto_n_176423.html>of Obama talking about the AIG bonuses and I caught him saying that he
>>>>> wanted the bonuses to be based on performance, as if they are based on the
>>>>> lottery now.
>>>>>
>>>>> A worker's individual performance can only be estimated subjectively in
>>>>> terms of how it affects the company's performance, especially for large
>>>>> corporations where there are a great number of contributors to each gain or
>>>>> loss and a great degree of inter-dependency between the workers.
>>>>>
>>>>> A worker's performance metric is like a peer trust metric in that it is
>>>>> prone to being gamed/rigged both deliberately or inadvertently.  That is
>>>>> true of any subjective metric.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only thing in Obama's statement that makes sense (which he can be
>>>>> excused for not explaining in detail) is if we were to keep the bonuses and
>>>>> pay them only 5 years after the worker's exit (when the worker leaves the
>>>>> company) based on the average of the company's performance (measured  in the
>>>>> period of the worker's employment + 5 years. For example, those who left AIG
>>>>> prior to mid 2003 the bonuses would have much higher bonuses than those who
>>>>> are leaving AIG now or who will leave it in the future (due to the abysmal
>>>>> effect of the 2008 collapse on the company average performance.) It's not a
>>>>> perfect solution but if that's what Obama meant when he said that it's not
>>>>> fair that "people make $6M bonuses when things are good and then get bailed
>>>>> out by taxpayers when things are bad" then I think it could lead to a more
>>>>> fair system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>>>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>>
>>>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>>>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>>>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>>>
>>>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>>>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>
>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>
>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>
>
>

-- 
Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com

Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/
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