[p2p-research] Co-Owned Public Peer Property

[Samuel Rose]

No, I was suggesting a plausible way that you might approach creating a coop
without what most people refer to as "capital"

But, I don't think you are interested in starting a coop. It is my belief
that you are interested in helping people to question the way that they view
the world.

Michel is suggesting that you try out your ideas. Your response was that you
don't have the means to try out your ideas. I suggested one way that you
might get the means.

But, instead, I should probably ask you: How would you get the means to try
out what you are talking about? What will it require?

It seems to me that you are suggesting that people might work with you by
deciding to take what they are now recognized as being legal owners of, and
pooling it together into a collectively-owned cooperative-governed system.

I know already that your ideas are sound, as we had this same discussion
last year. There are no holes in what you are putting forward from what I
can tell.

The only thing that you are missing is *people willing to participate),
right?

I am actually suggesting in some circles that we try essentially what you
are talking about with the data that is produced by people, that we all
participate in storing it, and serving it, by donating part of our hard
drive space and computer processing power.

Anyway, seems like you could convince at least a few people to try what you
are talking about. For instance, you might build a machine, then invite
people to co-own the machine, and share in both the upkeep of machine, and
profit made from machine, in some way.

A version of this is what I am proposing for co-working fabrication
facilities.

This kind of change will probably take several years, I am sorry to tell
you. because, it is so different from what so many are currently doing. So,
the best places to start in my opinion are in areas where people can see an
immediate advantage (like flex fab coworking)

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Patrick Anderson <agnucius at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Star a coop with an alternative currency.
> >
> > Then, the only capital you'll need is what some people call "social
> capital"...
>
> Are you are saying we can start a cooperative through the issuance of
> an arbitrary currency?
>
> If so, then why don't you take this approach?
>
>
> http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_capital says "Social capital is a
> concept developed in sociology and also used in business, economics,
> organizational behaviour, political science, public health and natural
> resources management that refers to connections within and between
> social networks as well as connections among individuals."
>
> How will we connect with each other without the Material Means of
> Production such as Land and Capital required to do so?
>
> Will we always pretend the ownership of Farms, Factories and Networks
> has no significance to our plight?
>
>    ...
>
> I don't understand why we avoid admitting that control rests in
> ownership and the accumulation of ownership occurs when profit is
> treated as a reward for the current owners.
>
> Does it embarrass people to admit we are being taken advantage of?
>
> Or maybe it is to *protect* the long-standing misapplication of Profit
> so control and ownership can continue to be concentrated into the
> hands of originators.
>
> Maybe our species has been living within Capitalism for so long that
> the only surviving genes are those associated with the subjugation of
> others to the point where alternatives appear unrealistic.
>
> I'll try to stop repeating my apparently boring ideas, but am very sad
> and even scared for our future.
>
> There must be psychological barriers to considering this road that I
> don't understand.  I wish someone could tell me why it won't work, or
> otherwise help move forward.
>
>
> Patrick
>
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>



-- 
Sam Rose
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"Long ago, we brought you all this fire.
Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."

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