[p2p-research] Fwd: Launch of Abundance: The Journal of Post-Scarcity Studies, preliminary plans

[Christian Siefkes]

Hi Michel, hi all,

Michel Bauwens wrote:
> though when you say that such trading eventually leads to capitalism, I
> have to disagree, as the historical record shows that such markets 
> operated for thousands of years subsumed to broader self-sufficiency
> oriented production regimes, probably also regulated to stay limited in
> scope.

yes, it's as you say: in those cases trading wasn't the main mode of
organizing production, but subsumed, i.e. secondary to a different, primary
mode of production (which was based on subsistence and/or on dependency
relations, e.g. between feudal masters and serfs). That's just what I
said--trade will only evolve into capitalism if it's the primary mode of
organizing production.

> the context is that we now have a fully capitalist system, with a
> particularly dysfunctional monetary and financial system, which has an
> in-built tendency towards infinite growth and accumulation

Why do you think that tendency towards infinite growth results from the
monetary and financial system? Accumulation, i.e. turning money into more
money, is the main driving force of any capitalist enterprise--it's the
necessary tendency of capitalism to strive for infinite growth, because all
participating capitalists/enterprises want to multiply their money as much
as possible. The monetary and financial system is secondary to that--it's
the result of capitalism's strive for infinite growth, not the cause of it.

> My take is that taking control of the production of money, using
> different design principles, is a definitive advance for a community
> using them.

Hm, what purpose are you trying to achieve here? I think one of the biggest
problems of capitalism which we have to solve if we want a better future is
*exploitation* (in the technical sense I explained): the fact that some
people can exploit other people's labor power, getting richer and richer
over time, while the others stay relatively poor and powerless, and those
that don't find somebody to exploit them are even worse of.

But exploitation is not a result of money (per se), it results from the fact
that some people have to sell their labor power, while others are in a
position to buy it. So I don't see how changing the way in which is money is
supposed to work could help us solve this problem--either the "modified
money" still allows the buying and selling of labor power, then the problem
remains open and unsolved.

Or the "modified money" makes the buying and selling of labor power not only
impossible, but actually unnecessary--meaning that people can lead rich and
fulfilled lives without having to do so. But then it would differ so
radically from money-as-we-know-it that I don't think the term "money" could
still be meaningfully used.

So I don't see how changing money could help us. We need a deeper change, a
change in the way production itself is organized--that entails the
abolishment of money-as-we-know-it, but it doesn't stop there.
My peerconomy <http://peerconomy.org/> proposal is, of course, about how
such a non-exploitative mode of production might work, and I think that
fostering, deepening, and extending current commons-based peer production
practices is the most promising way to go there. (Including all the amazing
things about open manufacturing and physical peer production discusses in
the openmanufacturing group).

Best regards
	Christian

-- 
|-------- Dr. Christian Siefkes --------- christian at siefkes.net ---------
|   Homepage: http://www.siefkes.net/   |   Blog: http://www.keimform.de/
|   Better Bayesian Analysis:           |   Peer Production Everywhere:
|   http://bart-project.com/            |   http://peerconomy.org/wiki/
|------------------------------------------ OpenPGP Key ID: 0x346452D8 --
The best things in life are always free.
        -- Madonna

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