[p2p-research] do we need to shift to closed systems again?

Sun Mar 1 08:20:38 CET 2009

Hi sam,

I think that indeed equating local with closed is a recipe for political
disaster  and can only attract reactionary forces ...

Michel

On 2/27/09, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hmmm....
>
>
> I think it is a real mistake to call these systems "closed".
>
> "Local" is better. I totally agree that we need what he is talking about. I
> just think his systems-language is off.
>
> In fact, I think what he is talking about is what Janine Beynus calls "Type
> 2" and "Type 3" systems.
> http://www.massivechange.com/2006/07/11/janine-benyus-interview-october-14-2003/
>
> Our systems are now largely centered around what Beynus calls "Type 1"
> ecology, which is part of natural cycles. It is a mass/monoculture system
> based on rapid growth. After a damaging forest fire, this is the ecology
> that emerges.
>
> In nature, systems tend to move to towards a "permaculture", Shrubs and
> then trees grow and establish a more permanent system that is far more self
> sustaining. Conversion of sunlight into resources is increased, biodiversity
> is increased. Much of the activity happens "locally", but there are larger
> regional systems, and even global systems which are affected by the local
> system, and vice-versa. This larger regional/global system scale is
> something that we tend to ignore, because it's temporal pace is different
> than systems that have emerged on human-sense scales. (of course, they are
> getting a lot of attention now that climate change is happening).
>
> There is no closed living system, including any human system, in my
> opinion. People would be better off understanding the nature of things this
> way, then going along thinking that what some people describe as "local"
> means "closed". This may seem frivilous. But in my opinion, it is important
> that people understand the nature of what they are looking at.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> I'm publishing this on march 4,
>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/do-we-need-closed-systems-for-lean-economies/2009/03/04,
>> from the full original at
>> http://www.feasta.org/documents/review2/fleming.htm
>>
>> Counter-intuitively, these localization advocates propose a return to
>> 'closed' systems of production.
>>
>> Reactions would be most appreciated, for publication as comments on the
>> blog as well,
>>
>> Michel
>>
>> Do we need closed systems for lean economies?<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=2509>
>>
>>  This one is counter-intuitive to me, i.e. Irish localization advocates
>> are proposing a shift to closed systems of production<http://www.feasta.org/documents/review2/fleming.htm>
>> .
>>
>> Reactions from ‘open advocates’ would be very welcome.
>>
>> *David Fleming:*
>>
>> *“Lean thinking, adapted to this context, is about establishing and
>> sustaining a closed system which provides food, water, energy and materials
>> from local resources and, as far as possible, conserves and renews these
>> primary assets in the local economy. A closed system means no material
>> imports, no material waste, and dependence on solar energy. Well, you cannot
>> get completely closed systems in human affairs, except on the scale of the
>> planet as a whole, but, on a local scale, you can get very much closer than
>> we are at present.*
>>
>> *A closed system in the case of food requires fertility to be retained
>> locally - that is, not only nitrogen, phosphates and potash - but the
>> micronutrients too. If conserved as capital, composted and used again and
>> again, fertility - including human waste - can be more than simply
>> sustained; it can be built up towards the extraordinarily high local yields
>> achieved by such virtuosos of food production as Alan Chadwick and John
>> Jeavons.*
>>
>> *You don’t have to do this, quite, with water, because it rains, of
>> course, though we will have to get used to droughts as global warming
>> intensifies, but even in a rainy climate, a local economy needs to maintain,
>> shall we say, a conservation system in its use of water. Among the reasons
>> for this - first, lean production will use aquaculture, which is a more
>> productive food system than the soil; secondly, permaculture, which loves
>> closed, circular systems, typically has a central place for water - for
>> instance, the pond is habitat for water weeds, that fertilise the land, that
>> grows the food, which is attacked by slugs, that are eaten by the ducks,
>> that live in the pond, and fertilise the water weeds. Water has a way of
>> connecting things up. One immensely effective form of it is the Japanese
>> Aigamo method for rice production. It can be many times more productive, for
>> a given area of land, than the most high-tech agriculture.*
>>
>> *In the case of energy, closed systems do not really apply since they are
>> defined in terms of materials, and energy takes a one-way ticket from the
>> sun to dissipation in the form of low-level heat. But the principle is
>> similar, because the Lean Economy is built on “solar string” technologies -
>> that is, various forms of renewable energy derived ultimately from the sun,
>> and strung out in a minigrid in which every member of the grid is generator,
>> user or storage depot as opportunity offers.*
>>
>> *A minigrid uses the full range of technologies including solar, wind,
>> water and biomass, conserving energy through the use of the benign army of
>> emerging energy technologies that is on the way. It stores energy with the
>> use of media such as hydrogen, biomass, supercapacitors, flywheels, ceramics
>> and pumped storage. It uses information technology to manage demand. And the
>> giant users of energy - transport and industry, and houses that leak energy
>> - are not, and cannot be, part of that world.*
>>
>> *The stabilised Lean Economy gives a sharp and very ambitious meaning to
>> energy efficiency. Changes in behaviour, including (for example) a
>> drastically reduced dependency on transport, could reduce the demand for
>> energy-services by two thirds (a factor of 3); and energy efficiency - the
>> energy services provided by a kilowatt of energy - could be improved by as
>> much. That multiplies up to a 90 percent improvement - or a demand for just
>> 10 percent of the energy we use now - and that is well within the capability
>> of renewables.*
>>
>> *Figure 6. The Carbon Budget for Domestic Tradable Quotas is defined over
>> ten years: the first five years (the Commitment) cannot be changed; the
>> second five years is set in advance but can be revised. There is then a ten
>> year “forecast” which gives guidance on the scale of the reduction that can
>> be expected in the future. The budget represents a guarantee that reduction
>> targets are met and it enables people to make informed preparation for it.
>> *
>>
>> *The transition will require energy rationing. There is an electronic
>> rationing system for energy called Domestic Tradable Quotas (DTQs) which
>> uses information technology to distribute fair access to fossil fuels,
>> guaranteeing that a year-on-year budget for reduced consumption is achieved.
>> The DTQ budget looks like this (figure 6). It is the basis for a
>> step-by-step decline in emissions of carbon dioxide from all fossil fuels.
>> This is, I would argue, the only way of achieving equitable allocation of
>> the declining access to fuel that we will face in the near future. It will
>> need to be a national scheme, firmly based on a strong sense of national
>> solidarity. And its significance extends beyond energy. A decisive and
>> persistent reduction in energy use could provide the pathway by which our
>> present day economy can achieve the transition - a massive achievement it
>> would be, if it happened - to the stabilised Lean Economy.*“
>>
>>
>> --
>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>
>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>
>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sam Rose
> Social Synergy
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>
>
>
>
> "Long ago, we brought you all this fire.
> Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."
>
> http://notanemployee.net/
>

-- 
Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com

Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/
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