[p2p-research] Why Post-Capitalism is Rubbish

[Michel Bauwens]

one remark, about the last paragraph,

I see these efforts 'integratively', i.e. while some are looking for market
alternatives, other are looking for market improvements, since we can't stop
anyone from following these inclinations, we can nudge them so they become
complimentary and mutually strengfthening,

Michel

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:35 PM, Christian Siefkes
<christian at siefkes.net>wrote:

> Michel,
>
> Michel Bauwens wrote:
> > but it would take a whole radical step to re-introduce that particular
> > logic for the whole of the economy ...
> >
> > perhaps this is a interesting question for you: do you believe we don't
> > need a transitional economy?
> >
> > if not, why not
>
> Well, in a sense my own model contains many transitional elements, such as
> the mechanisms for distributing unwanted tasks (task weighting) and limited
> resources (resource auctioning). These elements may prove unnecessary over
> time when automation and stigmergetic self-organization become sufficient
> for task sharing and when more efficient and responsible usage facilitates
> the allocation of limited resources.
>
> Of course, these can only be elements of a second transitional phase, since
> the model I describe already assumes that all areas of life are based on
> the principles of commons-based peer production, where the need to earn
> money no longer exists. We certainly need other transitional steps until
> we'll get there.
>
> > if yes, then isn't that something to be tackled specifically in a
> > political theory for a commons ...
>
> It's an important topic, about which I talked a bit during the second part
> of my Oekonux 4 talk, and about which I want to think and write and
> discourse much more in the future.
>
> > this is what some people, myself included, want to work on, when we say
> > that existing peer production will inevitably need to co-exist with a
> > equitable market ...
>
> It will certainly need to co-exist with the market, and its important to
> think about (and experiment with) how that can happen in a way that doesn't
> hurt the logic of peer production too much.
>
> About "equitable" I don't know -- in some ways, the market is already quite
> equitable in the sense that markets tend to equivalent exchange whenever
> free competition exists; in another sense, markets can *never* be equitable
> since markets are based on private property which by definition will always
> be distributed unequally. A market without private property cannot possibly
> exist, so equitable markets in the second, deeper sense are impossible.
>
> Therefore I think it makes much more sense to find out how we co-exist with
> the really existing market (and at the same time find the ways to overcome
> it), rather than dreaming about a market which doesn't and cannot exist.
>
> Best regards
>        Christian
>
> --
> |-------- Dr. Christian Siefkes --------- christian at siefkes.net ---------
> |   Homepage: http://www.siefkes.net/   |   Blog: http://www.keimform.de/
> |   Better Bayesian Analysis:           |   Peer Production Everywhere:
> |   http://bart-project.com/            |   http://peerconomy.org/wiki/
> |------------------------------------------ OpenPGP Key ID: 0x346452D8 --
> More harm has been done by people panicked over societal decline than
> societal decline ever did.
>        -- xkcd
>
>
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