[p2p-research] Why Post-Capitalism is Rubbish

[Michel Bauwens]

Hi christian,

thanks for the previous explanation of how the peer economy differs from the
market model

you are right: contributors are exchanging 'generally' with a pool, not with
each other, making this a clear commons model ...

I wonder if you would have the time to improve the section I have dedicated
to your work, i.e. http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Peereconomy

I will be quoting the market exchange thing tomorrow on the blog

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:35 PM, Christian Siefkes
<christian at siefkes.net>wrote:

> Michel,
>
> Michel Bauwens wrote:
> > but it would take a whole radical step to re-introduce that particular
> > logic for the whole of the economy ...
> >
> > perhaps this is a interesting question for you: do you believe we don't
> > need a transitional economy?
> >
> > if not, why not
>
> Well, in a sense my own model contains many transitional elements, such as
> the mechanisms for distributing unwanted tasks (task weighting) and limited
> resources (resource auctioning). These elements may prove unnecessary over
> time when automation and stigmergetic self-organization become sufficient
> for task sharing and when more efficient and responsible usage facilitates
> the allocation of limited resources.
>
> Of course, these can only be elements of a second transitional phase, since
> the model I describe already assumes that all areas of life are based on
> the principles of commons-based peer production, where the need to earn
> money no longer exists. We certainly need other transitional steps until
> we'll get there.
>
> > if yes, then isn't that something to be tackled specifically in a
> > political theory for a commons ...
>
> It's an important topic, about which I talked a bit during the second part
> of my Oekonux 4 talk, and about which I want to think and write and
> discourse much more in the future.
>
> > this is what some people, myself included, want to work on, when we say
> > that existing peer production will inevitably need to co-exist with a
> > equitable market ...
>
> It will certainly need to co-exist with the market, and its important to
> think about (and experiment with) how that can happen in a way that doesn't
> hurt the logic of peer production too much.
>
> About "equitable" I don't know -- in some ways, the market is already quite
> equitable in the sense that markets tend to equivalent exchange whenever
> free competition exists; in another sense, markets can *never* be equitable
> since markets are based on private property which by definition will always
> be distributed unequally. A market without private property cannot possibly
> exist, so equitable markets in the second, deeper sense are impossible.
>
> Therefore I think it makes much more sense to find out how we co-exist with
> the really existing market (and at the same time find the ways to overcome
> it), rather than dreaming about a market which doesn't and cannot exist.
>
> Best regards
>        Christian
>
> --
> |-------- Dr. Christian Siefkes --------- christian at siefkes.net ---------
> |   Homepage: http://www.siefkes.net/   |   Blog: http://www.keimform.de/
> |   Better Bayesian Analysis:           |   Peer Production Everywhere:
> |   http://bart-project.com/            |   http://peerconomy.org/wiki/
> |------------------------------------------ OpenPGP Key ID: 0x346452D8 --
> More harm has been done by people panicked over societal decline than
> societal decline ever did.
>        -- xkcd
>
>
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