[p2p-research] Open Source Ecology

Tue Jun 16 09:11:56 CEST 2009

Hi Franz,

if I may suggest a possible way forward,

I think a priority should be at this stage, that you and Marcin create a
VillageForge, where the different projects can be described, and designs and
progress reports can be listed, not just by Marcin, but by anybody living in
the world interested in similar projects ...

I think this is the necesary first step in globalizing the effort,

Michel

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin at gmail.com> wrote:

> After years of living on the edge I have seen that not everything moves as
> fast or willingly as me.
>
> I am so appreciative of the fact that the group here is, as a group,
> investing in infrastructure than can carry any currency, that it's difficult
> to put into words.  I mean, for all the talk going on, thos thing is ONLINE
> NOW! W00t!
>
> As a group they are aware that we must prove profress and a useful solution
> and tgat there are mire and better steps after we hit the first goals.
>
> I'll stay in touch about Iceland Smari.  I checked flights after returning
> from Oekonux and I will again very soon.  Bet on it ;)
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 14, 2009, at 18:27, Smári McCarthy <smari at anarchism.is> wrote:
>
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>>
>> Awesome. Although I like the idea of "alternative currencies", I think
>> there is more inherent value in "currencies"* and we should be focusing
>> on non-scarce replacements for current monetary systems. That said, I
>> haven't been doing a lot of work on this recently, mostly due to lack of
>> stimulus and too many other things going on.
>>
>> This week I'm meeting with Icelandic government officials on switching
>> over to free software. This has an estimated government spending
>> reduction of about 3.1-3.7 billion kronas annually just on licensing
>> costs, not to mention the increased sustainability and trade benefits.
>>
>> Apart from that there are motions in action to start a cooperative ISP
>> in Iceland which aims, broadly, to decommoditise uplink, putting it back
>> into the infrastructure realm. This is important, because you don't
>> build systems upon commodities, you build it on infrastructure.
>> Regardless of your active value statement** you have to admit that value
>> grows faster when the underlying elements are givens.
>>
>> Alex: You should drop by Iceland on your way back if you have the
>> option. The level of madness that could ensue from this would be
>> spectacular. If not, fair enough, we've got plenty of time.
>>
>>
>> - Smári
>>
>>
>>
>> * "Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to
>> work? Medicine." - Tim Minchin
>>
>> ** Mine is formulating to be: Every increase in redundancy results in a
>> decrease in requisite effort. More on this later.
>>
>>
>> Alex Rollin wrote:
>>
>>> Nice!
>>>
>>> I am in Santa Rosa at the moment working on a prototype alternate
>>> currency system with a coop that is working towards the ability to
>>> purchase and manage 'rival goods' for the common good.  I flew here from
>>> Amsterdam to work on the project.  Very fun!
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> 2009/6/14 Smári McCarthy <smari at anarchism.is <mailto:smari at anarchism.i
>>> s>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I have to agree with Franz here. I thank him for the kind words about my
>>> most recent rant, but the rant itself highlights a certain problem: I
>>> am, much like many people here, much better at ranting on endlessly
>>> about the theoretical points than making good of them on a practical
>>> level. Whilst the theoretical musings are very very important, if they
>>> aren't backed up with proof of concept and running code (to borrow a
>>> phrase) it isn't worth a lot.
>>>
>>> Open Source Ecology and Global Villages and so on are really doing the
>>> gruntwork here. There's lots and lots of running code. What we need to
>>> do collectively is map out that code, see what's working and why, and
>>> start mapping our theoretical insights onto proofs of concept. There's
>>> plenty of things that are working that we don't understand, and there's
>>> plenty of things that aren't working for reasons that we do understand.
>>>
>>> Bridge the gap, people!
>>>
>>> - Smári
>>>
>>>
>>> Franz Nahrada wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sorry Michel I cant do anything but fly over the messages in P2P
>>>>
>>> research
>>>
>>>> from time to time; the discussion is really interesting (especially I
>>>> liked Smaris rant about anarchism with many good insights). but
>>>>
>>> for me at
>>>
>>>> least part of the discussion is less important than the practical
>>>> experiment. I think it is utterly important to rally around common
>>>> activities or ongoing projects and describe them better. Let us
>>>>
>>> demand to
>>>
>>>> test what really works. It could as belief-blowing as a succesful
>>>>
>>> test of
>>>
>>>> nuclear fusion, and similarily uncomfortable and disturbing even
>>>>
>>> for the
>>>
>>>> enlightened mind. For example, I think we will not have a satisfactory
>>>> answer to the money problem unless we really put different
>>>>
>>> proposals to
>>>
>>>> work out in regional scale (including what I still would prefer to
>>>> describe as non-reciprocal gift economies, commons-based contribution
>>>> economies and other schemes, keeping in mind that really the property
>>>> question remains n fact central). And we all as different as we
>>>>
>>> are have a
>>>
>>>> clearly defined common interest to let such things like experiments in
>>>> social innovation happen, and at a higher level, we should be able to
>>>> formulate such an interest and give it political form - and also
>>>>
>>> give some
>>>
>>>> part of our energy to the promotion of such experiments. Never
>>>>
>>> before the
>>>
>>>> public ear has been more receptive to such proposals, but I see
>>>>
>>> more than
>>>
>>>> ever before nothing but idiots dominating the political scene who just
>>>> claim to have a clue to everything.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  This has to change radically. There is incredible thirst for another
>>>> anwer. And I hope that we will be able to discuss that soon when
>>>>
>>> we meet.
>>>
>>>  Furthermore and regarding the currently most promising social
>>>>
>>> experiment
>>>
>>>> and its implications, I issued a post on the globalvillages list
>>>>
>>> and added
>>>
>>>> a second one to stimulate our communities to take part in the critical
>>>> phase of transformation of Open Source Ecology into a virtual global
>>>> endavour. Its simply not true that developments like these could
>>>>
>>> happen
>>>
>>>> spontaneusly, it needs a lot of help and participation and critical
>>>> cooperation of intellectuals and bright minds. I see my function as a
>>>> door-opener who facilitates mental and communicational bridges between
>>>> people and the many meaningful movements that construct the
>>>>
>>> patterns of
>>>
>>>> tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  In this sense, I would just like to draw your attention and the
>>>>
>>> attention
>>>
>>>> of all readers of the p2presearch list to the following two posts:
>>>>
>>>
>>>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/globalvillages/message/4004
>>>>
>>>
>>>  where I describe the current phase of the project and ask for
>>>> participation in a particular project
>>>>
>>>
>>>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/globalvillages/message/4016
>>>>
>>>
>>>  where I seek to make a point against underestimation of this
>>>>
>>> movement also
>>>
>>>> within our own circles.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  both posts are meant for broader distribution.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Thank you
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Franz
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org <mailto:p2presearch at listcultures.org>
>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>> Alex
>>> I cannot teach anybody anything, I can only make them think.- Socrates
>>>
>>
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-- 
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