[p2p-research] Why Post-Capitalism is Rubbish

[Michel Bauwens]

My position is that both need to be integrated, but that it is regressive to
make non-reciprocity dependent on the needed reciprocity for material
production. This is why you are restricting the commons against capitalist
market players, making it into a non-commons or a privatized commons (though
by cooperative producers)

I'll restudy your distinction between peer production and cooperative
production because my earlier understanding was that you reduced the former
to the latter, but I may be wrong,

will reply more extensively later, got to go,

Michel

On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Dmytri Kleiner <dk at telekommunisten.net>wrote:

>
> On Thu, 11 Jun 2009, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>
>  So Stan has it right for me: the future of nonrival goods is increasingly
>> p2p
>> production, the future of rival goods is more equitable markets.
>>
>
> Hi Michel, we've gone over this before, but in the interest of getting
> the opinions of the others, I will once again claim that the
> above is a ridiculous position.
>
> You can not have one mode of production for rivalrous goods, and another
> for nonrivalrous goods so long as nonrivalrous goods have rivalrous
> goods as inputs.
>
> In otherwords, so long as Software developers and Wikipedia editors need
> a place to sleep and something to eat, food and shelter are inputs to
> the production of nonrivalrous wikipedia articles and software, and thus
> the reproduction costs of these inputs needs to accounted for by the
> mode of production, or else what you are describing is not a mode of
> production, just a special-case form of circulation within the larger
> mode.
>
> This confusion comes from your pro-capitalist (Benklerian) definition of
> peer production.
>
> Defining peer-production as "non-reciprocal production of immaterial
> wealth" is an overly conservative definition that seeks to limit the
> potential of peer-production to the limits defined by Capitalism
>
> Peer-production is better defined as "independent producers working with
> a common stock of productive assets," which implies a mode of production
> with far greater retained wealth and far lower economic rents, and
> therefore one that would be unable to sustain the wealth accumulation of
> a Capitalist class.
>
> The term peer-production seems totally random in the Benklerian usage,
> since there is no linguistic link between "peer" and "nonreciprocal
> producer of immaterial goods." The source of the terms p2p and peer
> production is obviously and undeniably derived from peer networks, the
> nature of which is not "nonreciprocal," reciprocity is often a
> condition of peerage, i.e. bittorrent, regional Internet exchanges, etc,
> nor is it immaterial, since client-server systems also have immaterial
> traffic, and material assets, such as circuits are among the
> resources shared by the peers. Benkler's tacking-on of "commons-based" is
> redundant, for with nothing held in common, there is nothing to be "peers"
> in.
>
> What distinguishes peer networks from client-server systems is exactly
> that they consist of independent systems operating on a common stock of
> internetworking infrastructure. And what distinguishes peer-product from
> Capitalist production is that the means of production is held as a
> common stock to be used by independent workers in their own production.
>
> As a form of social production, peer-production is distinct from both
> collective (i.e "Soviet") and bourgeois (i.e. "The West") forms of
> Capitalist production and from co-operative production, which is
> "workers collectively working with jointly-owned productive assets."
>
> capitalist production: property-less workers working for owners of capital
>
> co-operative production: workers collectively working with jointly-owned
> productive assets.
>
> peer production: workers independently working with a common stock
> of productive assets.
>
> Peer production is the "more equitable market" you are looking for.
>
>
>
> --
> Dmytri Kleiner, aspiring crank
>
> http://www.telekommunisten.net
>



-- 
Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com

Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20090611/ef830e11/attachment.html>