[p2p-research] Why Post-Capitalism is Rubbish

[Dmytri Kleiner]

Hi Michel, please go ahead, also, if some light copyediting is done I
certainly wont complain, that post is riddled with typos.

Cheers.


On Thu, 11 Jun 2009, Michel Bauwens wrote:

> Hi Dmytri,
> 
> I updated http://p2pfoundation.net/Markets_without_Capitalism and if you don't mind,
> will republish this on our blog on the 15th,
> 
> Michel
> 
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Dmytri Kleiner <dk at telekommunisten.net> wrote:
>       On Wed, 10 Jun 2009, Stan Rhodes wrote:
>
>             Christian, your peerconomy is a market in everything but name. 
>             I've said it, Stefan's
>             said it.
> 
> 
> Me too, I made the same observation when the text was published (I
> actually have a printed version). Unfortunately, I was unable to find
> any of "peerconomy" theoretically coherent, and file it under the rest of
> the "oekonux" drivel.
> 
> However, I'm not sure I'm 100% on-side with Kevin (whose work I very
> much admire) WRT money and markets being nothing but neutral tools.
> 
> I believe that we must use money and markets in building the new society
> in the shell of the old, I do not however hold them as an ideal.
> 
> I fully believe that specialization of labour implies exchange, however exchange
> does not need to be money-denominated itemizedi, transactions, but can be
> significantly more fuzzy.
> 
> Until Capitalist social relations where imposed on society, money and
> markets functioned quite differently than they do today. Actual specie
> was rarely used in "market" transactions, even though money has existed
> as long as writing, it's use was mostly limited to paying tribute and
> for prestige (usually imported) goods. Most other goods where either
> traded on account or ad-hoc, this is certainly exchange and certainly
> reciprocial, but the valuation was not done on each item and not
> denomonated in money, but rather value was attributed to the
> relationship, not the transaction or the item. Markets formed on
> periphery of communities, not at their core, to dispose of surplus.
> 
> The more distant the relationship the more formal the accounting of the
> transaction, ad-hoc for close relations, on account for more distant
> relations, and actual negotiated trade of specie or good for other goods
> only when there is no relationship, whith distant trading partners or the
> State.
> 
> It is neither nuetral or natural to have markets central to communities,
> to have all sharing transformed into itemized transaction, but rather
> these social relations where imposed as a prerequisite of Capitalism,
> and are a symptom of the degree to which Captalism has destroyed human
> community, now limited only to the "Nuclear" family, and even this
> paltry and normalized vestige of human community is breaking down.
> 
> The uquiqity of money and markets is very much a feature of capitalism
> that was, like the rest of system, systimaticaly and forcefully imposed.
> 
> I agree with Kevin that Markets do not cause exploitation, but feel that
> the degree to which they permeate communities is a symptom of
> exploitation, and thus money and markets may, once again, play a vastly diminished
> role in the new society, once broken out of the shell of the old.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Dmytri Kleiner, aspiring crank
> 
> http://www.telekommunisten.net
> _______________________________________________
> p2presearch mailing list
> p2presearch at listcultures.org
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> 
> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
> 
> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
> 
> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN, http://www.shiftn.com/
> 
>

-- 
Dmytri Kleiner
editing text files since 1981

http://www.telekommunisten.net