[p2p-research] Why Post-Capitalism is Rubbish

[Michel Bauwens]

Hi Dmytri,

I updated http://p2pfoundation.net/Markets_without_Capitalism and if you
don't mind, will republish this on our blog on the 15th,

Michel

On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Dmytri Kleiner <dk at telekommunisten.net>wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Jun 2009, Stan Rhodes wrote:
>
>  Christian, your peerconomy is a market in everything but name.  I've said
>> it, Stefan's
>> said it.
>>
>
> Me too, I made the same observation when the text was published (I
> actually have a printed version). Unfortunately, I was unable to find
> any of "peerconomy" theoretically coherent, and file it under the rest of
> the "oekonux" drivel.
>
> However, I'm not sure I'm 100% on-side with Kevin (whose work I very
> much admire) WRT money and markets being nothing but neutral tools.
>
> I believe that we must use money and markets in building the new society
> in the shell of the old, I do not however hold them as an ideal.
>
> I fully believe that specialization of labour implies exchange, however
> exchange does not need to be money-denominated itemizedi, transactions, but
> can be significantly more fuzzy.
>
> Until Capitalist social relations where imposed on society, money and
> markets functioned quite differently than they do today. Actual specie
> was rarely used in "market" transactions, even though money has existed
> as long as writing, it's use was mostly limited to paying tribute and
> for prestige (usually imported) goods. Most other goods where either
> traded on account or ad-hoc, this is certainly exchange and certainly
> reciprocial, but the valuation was not done on each item and not
> denomonated in money, but rather value was attributed to the
> relationship, not the transaction or the item. Markets formed on
> periphery of communities, not at their core, to dispose of surplus.
>
> The more distant the relationship the more formal the accounting of the
> transaction, ad-hoc for close relations, on account for more distant
> relations, and actual negotiated trade of specie or good for other goods
> only when there is no relationship, whith distant trading partners or the
> State.
>
> It is neither nuetral or natural to have markets central to communities,
> to have all sharing transformed into itemized transaction, but rather
> these social relations where imposed as a prerequisite of Capitalism,
> and are a symptom of the degree to which Captalism has destroyed human
> community, now limited only to the "Nuclear" family, and even this
> paltry and normalized vestige of human community is breaking down.
>
> The uquiqity of money and markets is very much a feature of capitalism
> that was, like the rest of system, systimaticaly and forcefully imposed.
>
> I agree with Kevin that Markets do not cause exploitation, but feel that
> the degree to which they permeate communities is a symptom of
> exploitation, and thus money and markets may, once again, play a vastly
> diminished role in the new society, once broken out of the shell of the old.
>
>
>
> --
> Dmytri Kleiner, aspiring crank
>
> http://www.telekommunisten.net
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>


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