[p2p-research] Self-organizing principles

Wed Jun 10 13:05:07 CEST 2009

could be a little longer, the end is abrupt I think ...

perhaps you could add what your motivation is, what you are trying to find
out?

2009/6/10 Bas Reus <bas.reus at gmail.com>

> Hi all. I agree on starting a blogpost. I am thinking of the following
> post, please review. Thanks in advance.
>
> "*What about communication?*
>
> This above question I asked myself after reading two very inspiring pieces
> of work. The first is the PhD. of Mark Elliott, 'Stigmergic Collaboration. A
> Theoretical Framework for Mass Collaboration'. The second is a paper from
> Paul B. Hartzog, 'The Autocatalysis of Social Systems and the Emergence of
> Trust'.
>
> Paul argues that every act of communication is also an act of coordination.
> In order to communicate, both agents involved have to agree on the way
> communication works, which language is being used. But how do you agree
> without communication? Communication seems to be interrelated to
> coordination.
>
> Mark argues that stigmergy is a form of self-organizing, without the need
> for any communication. This should resolve the coordination paradox. Because
> agents leave traces in the system, other agents can act on them. This
> indirect form of communication is not directly addressed to anyone, but the
> one that notices the trace can act upon it. But how does coordination work
> here?
>
> The interesting part is that it seems there are some different approaches.
> Paul is talking about direct communication, while Mark talks about indirect
> communication. But coordination is always needed. And communication is
> always happening. Can stigmergy be the autocatalyst for communication? But
> how is communication being agreed upon? Please let us know your opinion.
>
> So why am I discussing this? Currently I am starting to research
> self-organization as the new dominant form of organization, and how online
> collaborative spaces can play a role there. Very much related to digital
> stigmergy, communication and coordination."
>
>
>
>
> 2009/5/29 Mark Elliott <me at mark-elliott.net>
>
> By all means (from my perspective) it's a great area for discussion - might
>> get a few comments even...
>>
>> 2009/5/28 Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>>
>> Hi Mark and Bas,
>>>
>>> perhaps we can republish your distinction on our blog and wiki?
>>>
>>> Michel
>>>
>>> 2009/5/28 Mark Elliott <me at mark-elliott.net>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback Bas. And that's exactly right Michel, stigmergy
>>>> is in fact a form of communication, just an indirect one mediated by the
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't yet had a chance to read Paul's attachment, but I too would
>>>> argue that every act of communication also entails coordination. Actually,
>>>> as part of my phd, i developed a framework for collective activity that
>>>> specifically distinguishes coordination, cooperation and collaboration (pg
>>>> 39).
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>> 2009/5/25 Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Bas,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the answer is that stigmergy is indirect, impersonal
>>>>> communication, you leave 'holoptic trails' that can be read by whoever will
>>>>> need them ... So there is communication if you like, but only indirect ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Michel
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/5/25 Bas Reus <bas.reus at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mark, Paul, et al.,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you very much for your responses so far.
>>>>>> @Mark: I read your abstract and some other pieces of your PhD. Very
>>>>>> inspiring.
>>>>>> @Paul: I read the PDF you attached, very inspiring as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These pieces of work will definately move me to the right directions.
>>>>>> Reading the material, I note some differences that cannot be both true, at
>>>>>> least in some way. In the PDF Paul sent, you argue that every act of
>>>>>> communication is also an act of coordination, while Mark argues that
>>>>>> stigmergy is a form of self-organizing, without the need for any
>>>>>> communication.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are your thoughts about this? Of course, this conclusion can be
>>>>>> rather rough and lacks some theoretical fundaments, but this is a differnce
>>>>>> I noticed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very happy to discuss further as well, as this moves me to the rights
>>>>>> directions. Digital stigmergy in the form of mass collaboration, with some
>>>>>> rules of engagement set a priori to spark a autopoietic solution might just
>>>>>> be the way to go for me. But I'm very open for more suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>> Bas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2009/5/22 Mark Elliott <me at mark-elliott.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Bas,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wikipedia can be seen as a self-organizing system where online
>>>>>>>> collaboration is taking place. This is a great example that we all know. But
>>>>>>>> what can be learnt from that? How did it become what it is today? Is it
>>>>>>>> because of self-organizing, or where there some rules agreed upon that made
>>>>>>>> it happen?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is more or less exactly the focus of my phd<http://mark-elliott.net/blog/?page_id=24>- digital stigmergy as a core underlying mechanism in the coordination and
>>>>>>> stimulation of online collaboration. Here's the abstract:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This thesis presents an application-oriented theoretical framework
>>>>>>>> for generalised and specific collaborative contexts with a special focus on
>>>>>>>> Internet-based mass collaboration. The proposed framework is informed by the
>>>>>>>> author’s many years of collaborative arts practice and the design, building
>>>>>>>> and moderation of a number of online collaborative environments across a
>>>>>>>> wide range of contexts and applications. The thesis provides
>>>>>>>> transdisciplinary architecture for describing the underlying mechanisms that
>>>>>>>> have enabled the emergence of mass collaboration and other activities
>>>>>>>> associated with ‘Web 2.0′ by incorporating a collaboratively developed
>>>>>>>> definition and general framework for collaboration and collective activity,
>>>>>>>> as well as theories of swarm intelligence, stigmergy, and distributed
>>>>>>>> cognition.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Accompanying this creative arts thesis is a DVD-Rom which includes
>>>>>>>> offline versions of the three Internet based collaborative environments
>>>>>>>> designed, built and implemented in accordance with the frameworks for
>>>>>>>> digital stigmergy and mass collaboration developed in the written work. The
>>>>>>>> creative works in conjunction with the written thesis help to explore and
>>>>>>>> more rigorously define the collaborative process in general, while testing
>>>>>>>> the theory that stigmergy is an inherent component of collaborative
>>>>>>>> processes which incorporate collective material production.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Supported by a range of contemporary examples of Internet activity,
>>>>>>>> including the accompanying creative works, it is found that stigmergy is a
>>>>>>>> deeply rooted mechanism inherent in not only traditional material
>>>>>>>> collaborative processes, but a range of emerging online practices which may
>>>>>>>> be broadly categorised as digital stigmergic cooperation and collaboration.
>>>>>>>> This latter class enables the extreme scaling seen in mass collaborative
>>>>>>>> projects such as Wikipedia.org, open source software projects and the
>>>>>>>> massive, multiplayer environment, Second Life. This scaling is achieved
>>>>>>>> through a range of attributes which are examined, such as the provision of a
>>>>>>>> localised site of individualistic engagement which reduces demands placed
>>>>>>>> upon participants by the social negotiation of contributions while
>>>>>>>> increasing capacity for direct and immediate creative participation via
>>>>>>>> digital workspaces. Also examined are a range of cultural, economic and
>>>>>>>> sociopolitical impacts which emerge as a direct result of mass
>>>>>>>> collaboration’s highly distributed, non-market based, peer-production
>>>>>>>> processes, all of which are shown to have important implications for the
>>>>>>>> further transformation of our contemporary information and media landscape.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Happy to discuss further :).
>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Michel Bauwens <
>>>>>>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Bas,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm copying Gus, and  his initiative on Studies in Emergent Order,
>>>>>>>> who may point you to some extra resources
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mark Elliot studies stygmergy, i.e. communicative swarming,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm sure paul's panarchy is also related,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Ryan Lanham <
>>>>>>>> rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopoiesis  is a starting point.
>>>>>>>>> There are huge literatures in self-organizing systems in computer science
>>>>>>>>> and AI.  There are discussions of self-organization in physics and in
>>>>>>>>> communications theory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think one of the most accessible and best recent studies is
>>>>>>>>> called Wikinomics.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You might want to look into the literature on social network
>>>>>>>>> analysis and join the mailing lists at INSNA which have covered these topics
>>>>>>>>> from sociological and mathematical perspectives for several years.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In biology, you my find your topic goes toward swarm science.
>>>>>>>>> Swarms are also heavily discussed in crowdsourcing literatures.  All of
>>>>>>>>> these approaches overlap collaboration and self-organization.  There are
>>>>>>>>> even literatures in constitutional and legal theory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan Lanham
>>>>>>>>> rlanham1963 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> Facebook: Ryan_Lanham
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Bas Reus <bas.reus at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All, this is a repost of a topic started at
>>>>>>>>>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/. Please advice.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> P2P friends, here a topic on self-organizing. Currently I am
>>>>>>>>>> trying to define this theme by making a list of themes that overlap
>>>>>>>>>> self-organizing somewhere, and help to define the theme seen from an online
>>>>>>>>>> collaborative point of view.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Self-organizing to me can be a system that is highly adaptive,
>>>>>>>>>> flexible and 'bottom-up'. When seen from an online collaborative point of
>>>>>>>>>> view I tend to think of empowerment and rules of engagement.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Of course Wikipedia can be seen as a self-organizing system where
>>>>>>>>>> online collaboration is taking place. This is a great example that we all
>>>>>>>>>> know. But what can be learnt from that? How did it become what it is today?
>>>>>>>>>> Is it because of self-organizing, or where there some rules agreed upon that
>>>>>>>>>> made it happen?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to be inspired by your thougths on this subject.
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Bas.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Original topic:
>>>>>>>>>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/selforganizing-principles
>>>>>>>>>> I already got some inspiration from Michel, on some available
>>>>>>>>>> research and interests.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>>>>>>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University-
>>>>>>>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>>>>>>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>>>>>>>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>>>>>>>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>>>>>>>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Mark Elliott, PhD
>>>>>>> Director, CollabForge pty ltd
>>>>>>> collaboration ~ mass collaboration ~ social software
>>>>>>> http://Collabforge.com ~ http://Mark-Elliott.net ~
>>>>>>> http://MetaCollab.net
>>>>>>> Phone: 0421 978 501 (international callers: +614 21 978 501)
>>>>>>> Twitter: MarkElliott
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>>>>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>>>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>>>
>>>>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>>>>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>>>>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>>>>
>>>>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>>>>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -----
>>>> Mark Elliott, PhD
>>>> Director, CollabForge pty ltd
>>>> collaboration ~ mass collaboration ~ social software
>>>> http://Collabforge.com ~ http://Mark-Elliott.net ~
>>>> http://MetaCollab.net
>>>> Phone: 0421 978 501 (international callers: +614 21 978 501)
>>>> Twitter: MarkElliott
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>
>>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>>
>>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>>
>>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -----
>> Mark Elliott, PhD
>> Director, CollabForge pty ltd
>> collaboration ~ mass collaboration ~ social software
>> http://Collabforge.com ~ http://Mark-Elliott.net ~ http://MetaCollab.net
>> Phone: 0421 978 501 (international callers: +614 21 978 501)
>> Twitter: MarkElliott
>>
>
>

-- 
Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com

Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/
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