[p2p-research] what to think of the market

Thu Jul 30 04:45:15 CEST 2009

which nations are most p2p?

another way to answer 'subjectively' .. .most popular pages in our wiki:

Greek language <http://p2pfoundation.net/Greek_language> ‎(10,602 views) ;
Greece <http://p2pfoundation.net/Greece> ‎(6,263 views)

Peru <http://p2pfoundation.net/Peru> ‎(9,740 views)

Brazil <http://p2pfoundation.net/Brazil> ‎(7,053 views)

India <http://p2pfoundation.net/India> ‎(6,775 views)

Chinese Translation <http://p2pfoundation.net/Chinese_Translation> ‎(4,916
views)

Germany <http://p2pfoundation.net/Germany> ‎(4,913 views)

Italian language <http://p2pfoundation.net/Italian_language> ‎(4,714 views)

Philippines <http://p2pfoundation.net/Philippines> ‎(4,642 views

Thai language <http://p2pfoundation.net/Thai_language> ‎(4,639 views)

Canada <http://p2pfoundation.net/Canada> ‎(4,501 views)

Spanish-Language <http://p2pfoundation.net/Spanish-Language> ‎(4,498 views)

United Kingdom <http://p2pfoundation.net/United_Kingdom> ‎(4,482 views)

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

> A friend of mine just returned from a tour of Iceland.  She found it
> extremely commons-oriented--shared grazing rights...lots of community assets
> (heated geo-thermal pools for instance which even small towns have)...lots
> of fish in the diet from the sea, etc.
>
> I think one set of discussions that is often played with here but never
> really fleshed out is...which nations are most P2P and why?
>
> Given her description, it sounds like Iceland is a candidate.  And yet no
> country has had a worse outcome with messy speculative trading and losses
> than Iceland in recent times.  So, maybe P2P isn't an ethos afterall.  Maybe
> it is a vein of post-modernism--a piece but not a whole.
>
> Ryan
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> In the end, I think the failed statist-socialist experiments where just
>> another form of capital, exhibiting many of the same 'modernist' aspects of
>> western capital systems, like enclosures of the commons, expropriation of
>> worker's surplus value, growth by accumulation of capital, etc...
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 2:44 AM, Kevin Carson <
>> free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/28/09, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I was merely pionting out that people have been innovating in very
>>> different
>>> > social models, way before the capitalist market became dominant, and
>>> often
>>> > outside of market relations, think of patronage, gift economies, the
>>> > invention of fire and the wheel etc..
>>>
>>> True, and even in planned economies like the USSR where it was almost
>>> impossible to value the productive resources going into an innovation
>>> and rank the alternative uses of those resource, at least some
>>> use-value was being created.  Refrigerators, microwaves, improved
>>> vehicles, televisions, etc., were introduced over the years of Soviet
>>> rule, and the general standard of living was surely better as a result
>>> of the technical progress.
>>>
>>> I've had some right-wing libertarians tell me the corporate economy
>>> couldn't be as statist as I make it out to be, and that it must be
>>> predominantly a market system even with the present degree of state
>>> involvement, because otherwise calculational chaos would have rendered
>>> it non-functional.
>>>
>>> In response I point to the innovations that took place in feudal
>>> Europe and under Soviet rule, and argue that by their standards it
>>> would require a degree of statism greater than that of the Soviet
>>> Union or feudal Europe to result in economic collapse.  Then I
>>> cheerfully concede that American state capitalism is probably no more
>>> statist than the USSR.
>>>
>>> What we have, though, in both the US corporate economy and the old
>>> USSR, is a lot of new technology and only the vaguest ideas of whether
>>> it's something people actually wanted or just what the bureaucracy
>>> wanted to design, and whether it is an efficient use of resources.
>>>
>>> --
>>>  Kevin Carson
>>> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
>>> Mutualist Blog:  Free Market Anti-Capitalism
>>> http://mutualist.blogspot.com
>>> Studies in Mutualist Political Economy
>>> http://www.mutualist.org/id47.html
>>> Organization Theory:  A Libertarian Perspective
>>> http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Research:
>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html - Think thank:
>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>>
>

-- 
Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Research:
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html - Think thank:
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
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