[p2p-research] what to think of the market

Michel Bauwens michelsub2004 at gmail.com
Thu Jul 30 04:38:26 CEST 2009 

Hi Ryan,

you asked: ..which nations are most P2P and why?

I can't answer that question, but very unscientifically, here's a biased
indication through the number of p2p trends I identity throuhg tags; biases
are: 1) mine ;2) the english language 3) I never tag USA ...

highlights:

P2P-UK *428* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-UK>

P2P-France *409* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-France>

P2P-China *371* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-China>

P2P-Australia *231* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Australia>

P2P-India *209* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-India>

P2P-Thailand *207* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Thailand>

P2P-Netherlands *200* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Netherlands>

<http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-France>
Region-specific <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/bundle:Region-specific>*146*

   - P2P-Afghanistan *3* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Afghanistan>
   - P2P-Africa *160* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Africa>
   - P2P-Argentina *41* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Argentina>
   - P2P-Armenia *3* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Armenia>
   - P2P-Asia *75* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Asia>
   - P2P-Australia *231* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Australia>
   - P2P-Austria *30* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Austria>
   - P2P-Azerbaijan *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Azerbaijan>
   - P2P-Bahrain *4* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Bahrain>
   - P2P-Bangladesh *9* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Bangladesh>
   - P2P-Belarus *3* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Belarus>
   - P2P-Belgium *66* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Belgium>
   - P2P-Bhutan *2* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Bhutan>
   - P2P-Bolivia *10* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Bolivia>
   - P2P-Brazil *88* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Brazil>
   - P2P-Brest *5* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Brest>
   - P2P-Bulgaria *5* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Bulgaria>
   - P2P-Burma *15* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Burma>
   - P2P-Cambodia *15* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Cambodia>
   - P2P-Canada *141* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Canada>
   - P2P-Caribean *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Caribean>
   - P2P-Chili *17* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Chili>
   - P2P-China *371* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-China>
   - P2P-Colombia *7* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Colombia>
   - P2P-Congo *4* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Congo>
   - P2P-Croatia *4* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Croatia>
   - P2P-Cuba *11* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Cuba>
   - P2P-Czechia *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Czechia>
   - P2P-Denmark *43* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Denmark>
   - P2P-Ecuador *16* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Ecuador>
   - P2P-Egypt *21* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Egypt>
   - P2P-Estonia *10* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Estonia>
   - P2P-Ethiopia *4* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Ethiopia>
   - P2P-Europe *243* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Europe>
   - P2P-Fiji *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Fiji>
   - P2P-Finland *43* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Finland>
   - P2P-Flanders *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Flanders>
   - P2P-France *409* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-France>
   - P2P-Georgia *5* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Georgia>
   - P2P-Germany *159* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Germany>
   - P2P-Ghana *5* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Ghana>
   - P2P-Greece *54* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Greece>
   - P2P-Guadeloupe *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Guadeloupe>
   - P2P-Guatemala *9* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Guatemala>
   - P2P-Haiti *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Haiti>
   - P2P-Hawaii *2* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Hawaii>
   - P2P-Honduras *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Honduras>
   - P2P-Hong-Kong *12* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Hong-Kong>
   - P2P-Hungary *8* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Hungary>
   - P2P-Iceland *8* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Iceland>
   - P2P-India *209* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-India>
   - P2P-Indonesia *12* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Indonesia>
   - P2P-Irak *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Irak>
   - P2P-Iran *81* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Iran>
   - P2P-Iraq *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Iraq>
   - P2P-Ireland *26* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Ireland>
   - P2P-Israel *19* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Israel>
   - P2P-Italy *99* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Italy>
   - P2P-Japan *82* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Japan>
   - P2P-Kazakhstan *4* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Kazakhstan>
   - P2P-Kenya *28* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Kenya>
   - P2P-Korea *57* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Korea>
   - P2P-Kuwait *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Kuwait>
   - P2P-Latin-America *6* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Latin-America>
   - P2P-Latvia *4* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Latvia>
   - P2P-Lebanon *2* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Lebanon>
   - P2P-Lithuania *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Lithuania>
   - P2P-Lybia *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Lybia>
   - P2P-Macedonia *5* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Macedonia>
   - P2P-Madagascar *2* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Madagascar>
   - P2P-Malaysia *22* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Malaysia>
   - P2P-Mali *4* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Mali>
   - P2P-Mexico *16* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Mexico>
   - P2P-Middle-East *26* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Middle-East>
   - P2P-Moldova *10* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Moldova>
   - P2P-Mongolia *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Mongolia>
   - P2P-Morocco *6* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Morocco>
   - P2P-Namibia *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Namibia>
   - P2P-Nature *10* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Nature>
   - P2P-Neighborhoods *8* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Neighborhoods>
   - P2P-Nepal *11* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Nepal>
   - P2P-Netherlands *200* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Netherlands>
   - P2P-New-Zealand *56* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-New-Zealand>
   - P2P-Nigeria *9* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Nigeria>
   - P2P-North-Korea *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-North-Korea>
   - P2P-Northern-Ireland
*3*<http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Northern-Ireland>
   - P2P-Norway *17* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Norway>
   - P2P-Pakistan *29* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Pakistan>
   - P2P-Palestina *21* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Palestina>
   - P2P-Papua-New-Guinea
*1*<http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Papua-New-Guinea>
   - P2P-Paraguay *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Paraguay>
   - P2P-Peru *7* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Peru>
   - P2P-Philippines *25* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Philippines>
   - P2P-Physical *4* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Physical>
   - P2P-Places *89* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Places>
   - P2P-Planet *2* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Planet>
   - P2P-Poland *8* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Poland>
   - P2P-Portugal *9* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Portugal>
   - P2P-Quebec *8* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Quebec>
   - P2P-Romania *13* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Romania>
   - P2P-Rural *24* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Rural>
   - P2P-Russia *56* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Russia>
   - P2P-Saudi-Arabia *7* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Saudi-Arabia>
   - P2P-Scotland *16* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Scotland>
   - P2P-Senegal *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Senegal>
   - P2P-Serbia *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Serbia>
   - P2P-Singapore *18* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Singapore>
   - P2P-Slovenia *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Slovenia>
   - P2P-Somalia *5* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Somalia>
   - P2P-South-Africa *48* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-South-Africa>
   - P2P-South-America *10*<http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-South-America>
   - P2P-South-Korea *7* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-South-Korea>
   - P2P-Spain *156* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Spain>
   - P2P-Sri-Lanka *4* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Sri-Lanka>
   - P2P-Sudan *2* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Sudan>
   - P2P-Sweden *66* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Sweden>
   - P2P-Switzerland *23* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Switzerland>
   - P2P-Taiwan *25* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Taiwan>
   - P2P-Tajikistan *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Tajikistan>
   - P2P-Tanzania *1* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Tanzania>
   - P2P-Thailand *207* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Thailand>
   - P2P-Tibet *8* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Tibet>
   - P2P-Time *11* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Time>
   - P2P-Travel *124* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Travel>
   - P2P-Tunisia *3* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Tunisia>
   - P2P-Turkey *7* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Turkey>
   - P2P-UAE *2* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-UAE>
   - P2P-Uganda *2* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Uganda>
   - P2P-UK *428* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-UK>
   - P2P-Ukraine *4* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Ukraine>
   - P2P-Urbanism *139* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Urbanism>
   - P2P-Uruguay *3* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Uruguay>
   - P2P-Uzbekistan *2* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Uzbekistan>
   - P2P-Venezuela *67* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Venezuela>
   - P2P-Vietnam *9* <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Vietnam>
   - P2P-Zimbabwe <http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Zimbabwe>


On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

> A friend of mine just returned from a tour of Iceland.  She found it
> extremely commons-oriented--shared grazing rights...lots of community assets
> (heated geo-thermal pools for instance which even small towns have)...lots
> of fish in the diet from the sea, etc.
>
> I think one set of discussions that is often played with here but never
> really fleshed out is...which nations are most P2P and why?
>
> Given her description, it sounds like Iceland is a candidate.  And yet no
> country has had a worse outcome with messy speculative trading and losses
> than Iceland in recent times.  So, maybe P2P isn't an ethos afterall.  Maybe
> it is a vein of post-modernism--a piece but not a whole.
>
> Ryan
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> In the end, I think the failed statist-socialist experiments where just
>> another form of capital, exhibiting many of the same 'modernist' aspects of
>> western capital systems, like enclosures of the commons, expropriation of
>> worker's surplus value, growth by accumulation of capital, etc...
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 2:44 AM, Kevin Carson <
>> free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/28/09, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I was merely pionting out that people have been innovating in very
>>> different
>>> > social models, way before the capitalist market became dominant, and
>>> often
>>> > outside of market relations, think of patronage, gift economies, the
>>> > invention of fire and the wheel etc..
>>>
>>> True, and even in planned economies like the USSR where it was almost
>>> impossible to value the productive resources going into an innovation
>>> and rank the alternative uses of those resource, at least some
>>> use-value was being created.  Refrigerators, microwaves, improved
>>> vehicles, televisions, etc., were introduced over the years of Soviet
>>> rule, and the general standard of living was surely better as a result
>>> of the technical progress.
>>>
>>> I've had some right-wing libertarians tell me the corporate economy
>>> couldn't be as statist as I make it out to be, and that it must be
>>> predominantly a market system even with the present degree of state
>>> involvement, because otherwise calculational chaos would have rendered
>>> it non-functional.
>>>
>>> In response I point to the innovations that took place in feudal
>>> Europe and under Soviet rule, and argue that by their standards it
>>> would require a degree of statism greater than that of the Soviet
>>> Union or feudal Europe to result in economic collapse.  Then I
>>> cheerfully concede that American state capitalism is probably no more
>>> statist than the USSR.
>>>
>>> What we have, though, in both the US corporate economy and the old
>>> USSR, is a lot of new technology and only the vaguest ideas of whether
>>> it's something people actually wanted or just what the bureaucracy
>>> wanted to design, and whether it is an efficient use of resources.
>>>
>>> --
>>>  Kevin Carson
>>> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
>>> Mutualist Blog:  Free Market Anti-Capitalism
>>> http://mutualist.blogspot.com
>>> Studies in Mutualist Political Economy
>>> http://www.mutualist.org/id47.html
>>> Organization Theory:  A Libertarian Perspective
>>> http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Research:
>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html - Think thank:
>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> p2presearch mailing list
>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>>
>


-- 
Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Research:
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html - Think thank:
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
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