[p2p-research] what to think of the market

[Michel Bauwens]

In the end, I think the failed statist-socialist experiments where just
another form of capital, exhibiting many of the same 'modernist' aspects of
western capital systems, like enclosures of the commons, expropriation of
worker's surplus value, growth by accumulation of capital, etc...

Michel

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 2:44 AM, Kevin Carson <
free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 7/28/09, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I was merely pionting out that people have been innovating in very
> different
> > social models, way before the capitalist market became dominant, and
> often
> > outside of market relations, think of patronage, gift economies, the
> > invention of fire and the wheel etc..
>
> True, and even in planned economies like the USSR where it was almost
> impossible to value the productive resources going into an innovation
> and rank the alternative uses of those resource, at least some
> use-value was being created.  Refrigerators, microwaves, improved
> vehicles, televisions, etc., were introduced over the years of Soviet
> rule, and the general standard of living was surely better as a result
> of the technical progress.
>
> I've had some right-wing libertarians tell me the corporate economy
> couldn't be as statist as I make it out to be, and that it must be
> predominantly a market system even with the present degree of state
> involvement, because otherwise calculational chaos would have rendered
> it non-functional.
>
> In response I point to the innovations that took place in feudal
> Europe and under Soviet rule, and argue that by their standards it
> would require a degree of statism greater than that of the Soviet
> Union or feudal Europe to result in economic collapse.  Then I
> cheerfully concede that American state capitalism is probably no more
> statist than the USSR.
>
> What we have, though, in both the US corporate economy and the old
> USSR, is a lot of new technology and only the vaguest ideas of whether
> it's something people actually wanted or just what the bureaucracy
> wanted to design, and whether it is an efficient use of resources.
>
> --
> Kevin Carson
> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
> Mutualist Blog:  Free Market Anti-Capitalism
> http://mutualist.blogspot.com
> Studies in Mutualist Political Economy
> http://www.mutualist.org/id47.html
> Organization Theory:  A Libertarian Perspective
> http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
>
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