[p2p-research] debate on open agriculture

[Stan Rhodes]

Kevin,

I don't know about Cuba, but China's statistics on nearly everything are
unreliable.  As Michel alluded to, as a very basic fact-check, if you look
at the overhead map of both Shanghai and Havana, you'll be hard-pressed to
find any evidence of such production.  Further, you can see the density for
yourself.  (Havana is recorded as having about half the density of Shanghai,
which seems reasonable.)  I've also heard from some Chinese I know that
Shanghai, Bejing, and other dense cities have pretty much everything shipped
in, which may be anecdotal, but I doubt any less reliable than official
government word.

I'd like everything to be as easily sustainable as possible, but big
problems exist at the macro level that aren't visible at the micro level.
That's why I mentioned just looking at the problems posed by New York City,
which is far less dense than most of comparable size, and has actual
economic data and research behind it.

Sam,

Thanks for the insight and update.

-- Stan

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Kevin Carson <
free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 7/26/09, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > In the book Deep Economy?
>
> That's the one.
>



>
> As a matter of fact, Havana and Shanghai produce a majority of their
> vegetables, and China's urban population meets around 85% of its
> vegetable needs through rooftop and vacant lot gardening.
>
> Kevin,
>
> do you have any sources on this?
>
> I heard 60%, but I cannot believe that contempary shangai would still allow
> this, there are hardly any rooftop gardens left ...
>
> On sam's excellent food site, only available after registration, I saw
> estimates that local food production could move from 5 to 25% of the food
> supply but not more,
>
> Michel
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