[p2p-research] "not a commons"....

[Michel Bauwens]

Hi Ryan,

the system you describe is also experienced as very negative by many
scholars, hence the popularity of the open access movement, which is gaining
rapid ground ...

I think the important thing here is not 'condemnation' from a high moral
ground, but rather, creating awareness of choices. I'm pretty sure that most
collaborators do not realize they are signing away all their rights. But, if
they still do after reading them, then it's really up to them ... Of course,
we have a preferential attachment to real commons, but it is not always
possible to create them, especially if a private project invests resources
in making a platform happen ..

There are lots of FLOSS projects where corporations 'profit' from volunteer
labor, though without enclosing licenses, as long as the process is
transparent ...

Michel

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Michel,
>
> If this site is condemned by P2PF, how should an advocate of P2P feel about
> academic journals which require sign-over of licenses or edited academic
> books, which do the same?  Aren't those, in a sense, simply crowdsourced
> with some agreement of attribution?
>
> Ryan
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:42 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Franz,
>>
>> I totally agree that there is a scandalous and exploitative element to
>> this kind of practice. It is only tempered by the fact that they are so
>> upfront about it and that the contributions are voluntary.
>>
>> But definitely, denouncing such practices would have a place on the p2p
>> blog, I'm open to publishing any contributions of that nature,
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Franz Nahrada <f.nahrada at reflex.at>wrote:
>>
>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org / Ryan schreibt:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> It's purpose is to crowdsource all the weird sites in the world into
>>> one
>>> >> open(?) geobase, but it is also "edited."
>>> >>
>>> >> I wonder if this is a commons?  There are .org and .com extensions
>>> >> associated with the site and its creators.  The financial model of the
>>> >> venture is less than clear but the idea of a crowdsourced map is close
>>> >to
>>> >> what Smari seems to be envisioning in some ways.
>>> >>
>>> >> I wonder if the Atlas Obscura framework could be reused?  The
>>> >descriptions
>>> >> of the founders seem to present relatively open minded people if one
>>> can
>>> >> judge from such a small description.
>>>
>>> and Michel states
>>>
>>>
>>> >Definitely not a commons, see the ToS:
>>> >
>>> >The website accessible through www.atlasobscura.com (the ?Website?) is
>>> >owned, operated and distributed by JPSF, LLC, a New York limited
>>> liability
>>> >company (?Atlas Obscura?). User Submissions are owned by their creators
>>> >and
>>> >licensed to Atlas Obscura. All other content and features available on
>>> the
>>> >Web Site are owned by or licensed to Atlas Obscura.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think this kind of "dispossesing crow(d)sourcing" is even something we
>>> should vigorously fight !!
>>>
>>> We never published the story of emporis.com, because the people involved
>>> did not want to risk conflict, but it still stands out as "a lead bad
>>> example for good."
>>>
>>> The creators took the work of thousands of people to create enormous
>>> commercial value. They gardened the crowdsourcing well like an oil field.
>>> Big success. I think they "realized" (turned into money)  the commercial
>>> value somehow already.....You researchers should dive ito this case
>>> study,
>>> I promise you findings!
>>>
>>> Ant they still "grant allowance" for people to throw there enthusiasm and
>>> energy in this: "Professionals from the building industry and people with
>>> a love for architecture are allowed (!!!) to participate in the
>>> completion
>>> of information."
>>>
>>> http://www.emporis.com/he/mc/
>>>
>>> One day - when the rules of the game will finally have changed - this
>>> will
>>> be obviously heavily scandalized. The day is not far any more, since the
>>> commons / p2p economy tipping point is in sight. By for now its just the
>>> dream web2.0 story any entrepreneur is dreaming of.
>>>
>>> Again this is a case to consider the enacting of the fairware idea - even
>>> for intellectual commons that are turned into commercialized services. It
>>> will fill the gap between amateur and professional world that we are so
>>> heavily suffering of and which distorts the p2p meme in public.
>>>
>>> Franz
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>
>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>
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>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>
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>>
>


-- 
Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com

Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/
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