[p2p-research] what to think of the market

[Ryan Lanham]

Hi Michel,

I suppose on further thought that you are right.  I should have said
that markets propel or accelerate innovation--not that innovation
requires markets.  Even my lesser assertion might be debated as well.

To my mind markets are a great good (much like a commons) that leads
people to challenge themselves, deliver what is demanded and to dream
of better ways.  Maybe those things can happen without profit or
markets, but the innovation of the market was a profound social
advance and one that occurred very broadly across a number of complex
civilizations.

Interesting that the market and the commons physically often occurred
in the same or similar spaces.  Fernand Braudel I suppose was the
clearest in tracing out the essential role of markets in paths that
led out of feudalism--markets that often were taken as a common good
to the cities they served.

To me, choice is a worthwhile social good.  Choosing a spouse, a home,
a city, a way to dress, the books and articles I wish to read...all
that choice to me derives largely from the advances of the social
ideas of the market.  It is perhaps humanity's greatest innovation
even if it does not cause innovation.

Ryan

On 7/22/09, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Innovation doesn't require markets ... there was innovation long before
> they
> were markets ...
>
> the Roman army was very innovative ...
>
> the Soviet Union was very innovative ... remember the Spoutnik and Cuba has
> been extraordinarily innovative surviving its Peak Oil ...
>
> this is not an argument for or against markets ... nor for centralized
> planning ..
>
> just a sidenote on a automatic association that is not warranted,
>
> Michel
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 1:58 AM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Kevin Carson>
>>>
>>> I've been a fan of Baker for a long time.  He grossly overestimates
>>> the positive effect of patents and copyright in stimulating
>>> innovation, IMO.  Most product and process innovations would have been
>>> developed without patents, according to a study by F.M. Scherer, and
>>> the "freemium" model (i.e. Redhat and Phish) is pretty broadly
>>> applicable as a way of making money despite free content.  If
>>> anything, patents suppress innovation.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> In digital media, I agree.  Just saw Chris Anderson on Charlie Rose's
>> show.  He was talking about his new book "Free."  He wasn't very
>> interesting, but he made the point that business models are changing.  I
>> think we can't make fundamental economic assumptions because economics,
>> like
>> all social science, is contextual to the times in which it is spun.
>> Patents
>> made more sense 50 years ago and so did copyrights, now the latter makes
>> little sense as generally set in law and the former is making less and
>> less
>> sense.
>>
>> Innovation requires markets...not necessarily protections.  That said,
>> small groups will forever more protect themselves from global competition
>> and who can blame them.  If they can do it, why can a small group in a
>> major
>> market?  So, it isn't going to go away.  The best option is to create as
>> many free or freemium products as is possible.  The ideology is
>> increasingly
>> a waste of time.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
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>
>
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-- 
Ryan Lanham
rlanham1963 at gmail.com
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