[p2p-research] Fwd: Incan P2P Empire

Sun Jan 4 04:23:30 CET 2009

Great discovery Dante,and they actually link to us below the Manifesto page.

This is really very very congruent with our work, perhaps the closest I have
found so far, a very serious project in making it real and operational as
well.

The contact page does not work for me, if you find a way to contact them,
thanks for letting me know,

Michel

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 12:29 AM
Subject: Re: Incan P2P Empire
To: p2p-money-game <p2p-money-game at googlegroups.com>
Cc: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>, Robin <robokow at gmail.com>,
marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>

Thanks Seth for this fascinating perspective and reminder of Inca
civilization.

I fwd ed it to Michel , and Michel Fwded it to p2p research
list<http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/>

Michel referred to a book called " beyond
civilization<http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Civilization-Streams-Achievements-Differences/dp/059520550X>",
which I googled, and lead me to the following very interesting wiki ,
which has much in common with some of the approaches of the
http://p2pfoundation.net :

http://www.organicdesign.co.nz/

http://www.organicdesign.co.nz/Living_Together/Table_of_content

It is also interesting to note that the statistics regarding, for example,
the number of pages of the organic design wiki, is similar to the p2p
foundation wiki :

*" There are 7,323 total pages in the
database."*<http://www.organicdesign.co.nz/Special:Statistics>

stretched over several categories and projects :

http://www.organicdesign.co.nz/Projects

also see manifesto :

*http://www.organicdesign.co.nz/Manifesto*

I also noticed that Organicwiki related energy with currency :

*http://www.organicdesign.co.nz/Energy_%26_Change
*

*redirects to the same page as*

*http://www.organicdesign.co.nz/Currency
*

There is also mention of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Accounting

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_economics  )

-------

I also want to underline a description of the Ayllu shared in the wikipedia
excerpts :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca#Politics_and_governance

*" As an economic unit the ayllu represented collective ownership of the
land as well as other resources such as llama herds and water sources. The
success and cohesiveness of the Andean ayllus was largely due to communal
agriculture.* "

The communal economic and political aspect seems to be important in enabling
such form of ( p2p ? ) governance ?

On the organic design wiki, I also find an excerpt stressing the importance
of access, not ownership

http://www.organicdesign.co.nz/Living_Together/Table_of_content#reuse_and_utilisation_-_access_not_ownership

On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:

> fascinating,
>
> it reminds me of a wonderful book, beyond civilisation, which argued that
> the Inca's were not a real civilisation, because they did not have a 'really
> separate and exploitative ruling class',
>
> Michel
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
> dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Forwarded conversation
>> Subject: [p2p money game: 162] Fwd: Incan P2P Empire
>> ------------------------
>>
>> From: *S H* <seh999 at gmail.com>
>> Date: Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:01 AM
>> To: p2p-money-game at googlegroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: S H <seh999 at gmail.com>
>> Date: Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 5:59 PM
>> Subject: Incan P2P Empire
>> To: marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
>> Cc: sean.kuty at evariware.com
>>
>>
>> according to sean, who studied the Incan (south america) empire in school,
>> their government, military, etc.. was designed according to, what he
>> recognized as, p2p/decentralized principles.  so here's some relevant points
>> i found in wikipedia while looking for evidence:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_Empire
>>
>>> The Inca Empire was a federalist system<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation>which consisted of a central government with the Inca at its head and four
>>> provinces: Chinchay Suyu <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinchay_Suyu>(NW), Anti
>>> Suyu <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti_Suyu> (NE), Kunti Suyu<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunti_Suyu>(SW), and Qulla
>>> Suyu <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qulla_Suyu> (SE). The four corners of
>>> these provinces met at the center, Cusco. Each province had a governor who
>>> oversaw local officials, who in turn supervised agriculturally-productive
>>> river valleys, cities and mines. There were separate chains of command for
>>> both the military and religious institutions, which created a system of
>>> partial checks and balances on power[*citation needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
>>> *]. The local officials were responsible for settling disputes and
>>> keeping track of each family's contribution to the mita<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mita_%28Inca%29>(mandatory public service).
>>>
>>
>>  Pachacuti sent spies to regions he wanted in his empire; they brought
>>> reports on the political organization, military might and wealth. He would
>>> then send messages to the leaders of these lands extolling the benefits of
>>> joining his empire, offering them presents of luxury goods such as high
>>> quality textiles, and promising that they would be materially richer as
>>> subject rulers of the Inca. Most accepted the rule of the Inca as a *fait
>>> accompli<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_phrases_used_by_English_speakers#D_.E2.80.93_H>
>>> * and acquiesced peacefully. The ruler's children would then be brought
>>> to Cuzco to be taught about Inca administration systems, then return to rule
>>> their native lands. This allowed the Inca to indoctrinate the former ruler's
>>> children into the Inca nobility, and, with luck, marry their daughters into
>>> families at various corners of the empire.
>>>
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca
>>
>>> The term 'ayllu' refers to a grouping of indigenous people of South
>>> America and has been translated as clan.[4]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca#cite_note-3>The term represents a group based on assumed blood-ties which operates as an
>>> economic and social unit. The Inca Empire was essentially a number of Andean
>>> ayllus controlled by a few Inca ayllus. As an economic unit the ayllu
>>> represented collective ownership of the land as well as other resources such
>>> as llama herds and water sources. The success and cohesiveness of the Andean
>>> ayllus was largely due to communal agriculture. Ayllus could regularly split
>>> apart due to economic hardships, ignoring blood ties, or come together with
>>> other ayllus with whom they did not share genealogy for the purposes
>>> necessary co-operation such as in irrigation or defence. Despite regular
>>> conquering or grouping of ayllus the individual ayllu would remain intact
>>> even after a break up of the group or empire to which it had belonged. This
>>> was largely due to their economic self-sufficiency. However conquering
>>> ayllus like the Inca, by building the collective state, gained economic and
>>> political power and developed into the ruling class, but in doing so lost
>>> that self-sufficiency. This meant that the failure or defeat of the
>>> collective state meant the demise of the ruling class. The Inca ayllus were
>>> based in Cuzco, the empire's capital, which was divided into Hanan-Cuzco
>>> (upper Cuzco) and Hurin-Cuzco (lower Cuzco). This separation, common with
>>> Andean ayllus is known as dual divisions. The two halves of the ayllu would
>>> from separate customs and rites and would form separate units in the army
>>> but would remain on good terms with each other socially, taking part in
>>> feasts and mock battles. Dual division was mostly religious and symbolic but
>>> had little economic relevance.[5]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca#cite_note-4>
>>>
>>> When a ruler died, their chosen successor would receive all their political
>>> power <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_power> and rights, while
>>> the ruler's other male descendants received all the monetary treasures. This
>>> process was called split inheritance<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_inheritance>
>>> .
>>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_society#Economy
>>
>>> According to Ferreira and Chamot "The social system of the Incas had an
>>> ancient Andean origin based on the ayllu, an extended family group with a
>>> common ancestor. The economic system was also based on ancient social
>>> structures and can be explained through several principles, namely
>>> reciprocity, redistribution, and vertical control." These authors also add:
>>> "Redistribution , a practice employed by the state, ensured that all
>>> agricultural goods not exchanged by reciprocity were to be distributed in
>>> the different areas of the empire in the case of bad crops."[2]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_society#cite_note-1>In essence, the government of the Inca functioned as a safe guard against
>>> mass starvation.
>>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_religion#Religious_Expansion
>>
>>> Religious traditions in the Andes tended to vary among different ayllus.
>>> While the Inca generally allowed or even incorporated local deities and
>>> heroes of the ayllus they conquered, they did bring their gods to those
>>> peoples by incorporating them in law such as required sacrifice. The Inca
>>> attempted to combine their deities with conquered ones in ways that raised
>>> the status of their ones.
>>
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_army
>>
>>> The Incas were very well organized in battle. In contrast to the Aztecs,
>>> who waged war mainly to take prisoners of war to execute in religious
>>> ceremonies and took tribute rather than land from the defeated people, the
>>> Incas' goals of war were to kill enemy soldiers and directly conquer enemy
>>> lands, putting them under the rule of the Sapa Inca<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapa_Inca>,
>>> who was the highest head of the army. The Incas were also very well
>>> organized in military logistics <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistics>,
>>> using magazines owned by the state to supply mass contingents with food, and
>>> also white tents in camp, organized in symmetric patterns that impressed the
>>> Europeans, who had neither this control nor order in their armies.
>>
>>
>>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quipus
>>
>>> Most of the information on the quipus are numbers in a decimal system..
>>> Some of the knots, as well as other features such as color, are thought to
>>> represent non-numeric information, which has not been deciphered. It is
>>> generally thought that, during the development of the system, there was no
>>> attempt to represent phonetic sounds as most writing systems do. There is
>>> currently a theory put forward by Gary Urton<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Urton>that the Khipus represented a binary system capable of recording
>>> phonological <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonology> or logographic<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logogram>data.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> ----------
>> From: *marc fawzi* <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
>> Date: Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:48 AM
>> To: S H <seh999 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: sean.kuty at evariware.com, p2p-money-game <
>> p2p-money-game at googlegroups.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It's funny because Incan invented the world's first m-logically value
>> currency ... (see: affinity matrix)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
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-- 
The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
alternatives.

Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p

Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU

KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
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