[p2p-research] List of articles on Indium/Gallium Supplies

Wed Feb 25 04:13:10 CET 2009

Hi Marc,

Kurt's point is not to abandon solar energy,

It's a warning not to expect any miracles that will quickly and in time undo
the current resource crisis, and let us continue to behave in extremely
wasteful ways, expecting that a technological fix will save us 'in time' ...

A lot of authors that have examined Peak Oil and other resource constraints
have come to that conclusion (James Kunstler, Leslie Brown, etc...). I'm
waiting for a documented response that does not relay on faith in a
miraculous technofix, but so far, I have seen nothing coming,

Michel

On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 5:56 AM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:

> When a certain resource hits that peak point, the search intensifies
> for a substitute.
>
> In the case of solar cells, the _substitute_ may be in the form of a
> radically new technology based on photosynthesis + fuel cells (see MIT
> press release in the previous message to this thread) which does not
> involve silicon or gallium.
>
> So the point that I want to make is that we cannot say that since
> gallium and indium is running out then we should forget "solar energy"
> altogether. The sun is an almost infinite source of energy. Once we
> perfect how we draw power from the sun, e.g. using photosynthesis like
> all plants have been doing since the birth of this planet, sustainable
> abundance in solar energy generation will be possible.
>
> And in the short term, enough gallium supplies exist, so sounding the
> alarm without offering an alternative is what the problem is in my own
> view. It's one thing to sound the alarm and at the same time offer an
> alternative. It's a completely different thing to sound the alarm and
> offer no alternative (for solar energy generation).
>
> Having said that, sounding the alarm now maybe a bit premature to the
> point where suppliers not faced with actual depletion conditions will
> use the fear to raise prices and the victims will be all the solar
> cell companies who are trying to lessen our dependence on fossil fuels
> so this whole "alarm sounding" act with respect to gallium and indium
> may be an attempt by Big Oil or other interests to kill the home solar
> energy market before it starts.
>
> Why not focus our "alarm raising" efforts on clean coal,
> environmentally damaging oil drilling, and nuclear energy and give the
> solar energy industry a break? After all, the solar energy industry is
> the industry that will invest in new ideas for harvesting the sun's
> power. Those ideas won't come from the clean coal or nuclear or oil
> industries.
>
> Sounding the alarm on gallium and indium now without hyping up the
> story is OK as long as A) we don't knock down an industry that is
> trying to lessen our dependence on fossil fuels and B) we accompany
> our alarm sounding with new ideas for getting energy efficiency from
> the sun.
>
> Otherwise, we're helping Big Oil, Clean Coal, and Nuclear industries
> by creating an alarmist atmosphere around the solar energy industry
> whereas what we need to create is hope in its future (think:
> photosynthesis, solar cooking, solar heating, etc)
>
> That's my opinion of course and I realize everyone has one :-)
>
> Marc
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Thank you Kurt, this will help a lot,
> >
> > Michel
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 2:00 AM, Kurt Cobb <kurtcobb2001 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Michel,
> >>
> >> I'm glad there is a discussion going on now.  Of course, people are
> still
> >> saying we have plenty of oil and natural gas as well.  But the key issue
> >> isn't when we run out of any of these key energy or mineral resources,
> but
> >> when we peak!   It is the flow of critical materials, not the size of
> the
> >> stocks that is important if we expect to continue to grow the world
> >> economy.  Declining flows means resource constraints.  The rate of of
> >> production is all important. Under these conditions vastly higher
> >> consumption cannot be achieved.  Here are three articles that should
> >> interest you on the topic of mineral depletion:
> >>
> >> Peak Minerals - Using USGS numbers the authors conclude that gallium
> >> production has already peaked.
> >> The Earth's Natural Wealth: An Audit - From New Scientist. Indium could
> be
> >> gone in 10 years.
> >> Metals Shortages - A nice summary with citations about our metals supply
> >> predicament
> >>
> >> One correction from my previous email.  Gallium is, of course, a
> byproduct
> >> of aluminum and zinc production.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Kurt Cobb
> >> Resource Insights
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> >> To: Kurt Cobb <kurtcobb2001 at yahoo.com>
> >> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:30:56 PM
> >> Subject: Fwd: [p2p-research] List of articles on Indium/Gallium Supplies
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:9xU1oL86m_EJ:www.indium.com/_dynamo/download.php%3Fdocid%3D552+gallium+indium+supply&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
> >>
> >> Dear Kurt,
> >>
> >> thanks again for your input which generate a lot of interesting comments
> >> both on our blog and p2p research mailing list, your cooperation was
> much
> >> appreciated,
> >>
> >> do you have any papers on the indium/gallium supply issue?
> >>
> >> Michel
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
> >> Date: Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 2:54 AM
> >> Subject: [p2p-research] List of articles on Indium/Gallium Supplies
> >> To: Peer-To-Peer Research List <p2presearch at listcultures.org>
> >>
> >>
> >> Re: viability of solar cell technology beyond silicon
> >>
> >> We had ample debate but (after asking twice) no one has provided a
> >> link to the paper that says gallium/indium supplies are at risk of
> >> being depleted in the short term.
> >>
> >> If anyone should like to provide links here to all such articles re:
> >> supply of indium and/or gallium regardless of whether they may be
> >> biased (fabricated conclusions of or bad analysis) not, please do so
> >> right here.
> >>
> >> Here is the first link (from a corporation):
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:9xU1oL86m_EJ:www.indium.com/_dynamo/download.php%3Fdocid%3D552+gallium+indium+supply&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
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> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> > http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> > http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >
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-- 
Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
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Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
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