[p2p-research] Fwd: [Open Manufacturing] Fwd: there is no energy crisis

[Samuel Rose]

Hey Tere,

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:31 AM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tere meant to reply to all, so here it is.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tere Vadén <tere.vaden at uta.fi>
> Date: Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 1:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [p2p-research] [Open Manufacturing] Fwd: there is no energy        crisis
> To: marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> in my mind the crucial issue is not the absolute availability of
> scarce resources but the large-scale EROEI (energy return on energy
> investment) of a given mode of energy production. The problem is that
> oil has a wonderful EROEI (see attached picture), while all other
> forms of large-scale energy production fall a lot lower (see also the
> discussion in: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3910). So the question
> becomes how much energy (infra, work, raw materials, etc.) does it
> take to produce the amount of alternative energy that would equal the
> amount of energy we get from oil. Unfortunaltely, that energy
> investment is, even in very conservative estimates, huge.
>
> T:T


One could argue that the the Net Energy Cliff is based on the assumptions that:


-The consumption of Fuel

-The monoculture nature of biomass production

...will remain the same.

However, what if Permaculture were used for biomass production? what
if natural processes were used for processing?

***What if some energy needs we replaced with natural  systems (like
fertilization of agriculture, home and commercial heating and cooling,
treatment of water systems, production of printed materials, plastics,
etc etc)?****

The future will not be like the past, or the present.

More importantly, if you and I (we) get *involved in the production*
of replacements for infrastructure, technology, processes and
practices that require traditional petroleum-based fuel production,
then we up the likelihood that the past will not be like the future.




>
> marc fawzi wrote:
> >
> > Dear Michel,
> >
> > We know that oil is running out. But the oil companies are funding
> > fusion research and all types of other alternatives, including solar.
> >
> > So "energy sources" will not run out. Oil will run out. The sun won't
> > run out, not any time soon.
> >
> > My point is that it's funny to say that the solar industry is screwed
> > because it relies on rare substance. If there is money to be made
> > there will be a variety of alternatives.
>
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