[p2p-research] [Open Manufacturing] Fwd: there is no energy crisis

[marc fawzi]

The last thing I'd do is to argue on behalf of some company.

I have no faith in the corporation as a concept so there is no way for
me to vouch for the work of a corporation, not even a public
corporation. I believe in a completely different system (see:
http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Energy_Economy for starters)

Having said that, I highly doubt that gallium will be depleted in 15
years because that assumes that none of the companies who have spent
tens of billions of dollars on gallium-based technologies have
bothered to research the issue.

What I've tried to highlight is that hundreds of billions of dollar
worth of goods a year depend on the existence of gallium and indium.
Their use is extremely wide spread in the electronics,
telecommunication and the LCD display industries, which are all very
huge industries, not to mention the defense industry which relies on
all kind of electronic and electro-optical technologies that
incorporate gallium and indium. The fact that all these powerful
interests (who have everything to lose if those substances cease to
exist) continue to invest heavily in NEW uses for gallium and indium
(including post-silicon chip technology) and the fact that the prices
for these substances have not risen dramatically (imagine where the
prices would be if we were just 15 years to depletion) means that the
suppliers are not seeing shortage any time soon.

Another thing you have to consider, is that suppliers who are corrupt
by simply being profit-at-all-cost corporations may have paid someone
to publish a report about the world running out of those substances so
that they can raise prices and reap huge profits, just as the oil
companies have done with the whole peak oil stuff, which is not to say
that oil is not running out but it has been running out since we
consumed  the first barrel.

You think academics and authors don't get paid (directly or
indirectly) by corporations to produce conclusions that lead to
billions of dollars more of profit?

Marc
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:28 AM, M. Fioretti <mfioretti at nexaima.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 03:04:49 AM -0800, marc fawzi wrote:
>
>> First off, I know nothing about nanosolar other than what you've
>> mentioned.
>
>> I had joined the debate to voice the opinion that if some substance
>> is running out it does not mean that all industries depending on it
>> will just cease to exist.
>
> IIRC, the point of *this* specific debate is *only* whether the
> *specific* claim that "there is no energy crisis *because* nanosolar
> will give us real cheap PV" is still credible after one finds out
> that:
>
> - there is a report (almost two years old) saying Indium and Gallium
>  will finish in <15 years or so
> - right now, we know of no newer (or older) reports proving the
>  contrary
> - nanosolar doesn't seem to know about indium/gallium scarcity (which
>  would drive prices to the roof) AND has no alternative technology that
>  we know of
>
> That's all, really. As far as I see, we were never debating "whether
> or not we can keep the [whole] solar industry alive before gallium and
> indium are depleted". I certainly wasn't, and certainly don't think
> that the world will come to an end if and just because indium and
> gallium disappear. It is even perfectly possible that there is no
> energy crisis whatever. It's just that that specific argument to prove
> it seems really weak.
>
> Marco F.
>
> --
> Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how
> software is used *around* you:            http://digifreedom.net/node/84
>
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