[p2p-research] abundance and scarcity in second life: market vs. other incentives

[marc fawzi]

<<
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Martien van Steenbergen <
Martien at aardrock.com> wrote:

> Measuring energy to store, transport and compute data/information/wisdom
> sounds very much like *conscious computing* as exemplified by:
>
> AardRock » Wizard Rabbit Treasurer<http://wiki.aardrock.com/Wizard_Rabbit_Treasurer>
>
>
> If we can 'socialize' this way of working and specify and implement the
> appropriate protocols, then we're well on our way if you ask me.
> Succes en plezier,
>
>>

Awesome! that's exactly where I'm headed with the P2P Energy Economy.
I'm glad to know it's not just the voices in my head :-)

In a _simplified_ version of Energy Costing Model, we can assume that the
cost of acquiring the infrastructure (processing, routing and storage
hardware and transport links) is a sunk cost, i.e. outside the calculation,
the cost of upgrades and maintenance of the infrastructure, which includes
human energy, can be based on a universal constant (to be figured out,
numerically, from data analysis) and electrical energy to power all that is
directly measurable.

http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Energy_Economy


Patrick,

In the P2P Energy Economy model the trading happens at the median cost in
work energy, which is to say that most producers will trade AT cost but more
efficient ones will trade a little above cost and less efficient ones will
trade a little below cost (which would eventually kill the latter group of
inefficient producers unless they become as efficient as the majority of
producers or more efficient)

Creativity is rewarded when it hits the right spots in the market, but
that's another aspect outside of the context of what I mean to ask you:

Can you elaborate on "trading at cost except for decentralized growth" ?

Marc
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Martien van Steenbergen <
Martien at aardrock.com> wrote:

> Measuring energy to store, transport and compute data/information/wisdom
> sounds very much like *conscious computing* as exemplified by:
>
> AardRock » Wizard Rabbit Treasurer<http://wiki.aardrock.com/Wizard_Rabbit_Treasurer>
>
>
> If we can 'socialize' this way of working and specify and implement the
> appropriate protocols, then we're well on our way if you ask me.
> Succes en plezier,
>
> Martien.
>
>
> On 16 Feb 2009, at 18:19 , Patrick Anderson wrote:
>
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 11:59 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Why not come up with a currency that lets us measure the cost of
>
> storing a single bit in absolute terms, based on the total work energy it
>
> takes to record and then replicate and deliver each bit?
>
>
> I agree that energy is part of it.
>
> Hosting any 'virtual' community has real physical costs that must be
> (re)covered else the organization cannot be sustained.  This is the
> same problem with physical communities.
>
> Some costs are periodic, such as a hosting service's monthly or yearly
> charge while other costs depend upon usage, such the hosting service's
> bandwidth limits, CPU, RAM, Hard Drive, electricity. The various
> 'loads' a user puts on the game server should weight his price to
> incent thrifty users and insure heavy users pay for excluding others.
>
> It seems our thinking oscillates between either of:
>
> 1.) Users should pay absolutely zero price (free as in beer) - which
> is BELOW cost, or
> 2.) Users should pay a priced somewhere ABOVE cost for it to be "worth
> it" for the initial investors, and for (centralized) growth.
>
> But there is a place right in-between those two.
>
> 1.5) Users should pay a price exactly EQUAL to cost except in cases of
> (decentralized) growth.  [The growth would only be decentralized if
> any price above cost were treated as user investment.]
>
> I wonder why this middle-ground seems taboo or ignored or avoided...
>
> So, (case #1.5) if we abundance seekers were to begin such a service,
> we would need to connect the real 'impact' each user has upon the
> physical sources needed to host that community with the price that
> user pays - for then there would be nothing to stop it's continuation.
>
> Otherwise, (case #1) we have well-intentioned individuals attempting
> to offer zero-price services that finally must give up because they
> cannot afford to cover those costs themselves.
>
> Or, (case #2) we have for-profit corporations charging more than cost,
> and yet still winning because they are able to continue and grow.
>
>
> Patrick
>
> PS: You might be interested in a (now idle) game project with those
> goals at http://EcoComics.sf.net
>
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