[p2p-research] an economy for open source content and open source development

Mon Feb 16 03:28:16 CET 2009

That seems like a very important development of your project, so I'm copying
it on our list as well,

of course very interesting that this changes the logic to 'applicable right
now' ...

Michel

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Om Besh <ombesh at gmail.com> wrote:

> fyi
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Om Besh <ombesh at gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 6:12 PM
> Subject: Re: undermining abundance
> To: Roberto Verzola <rverzola at gn.apc.org>
>
>
> It's started out as a model of a programmable P2P currency then I decided
> that the currency needs to completely redefine what money is in order for it
> to result in substantial changes. After that, I realized that what I have
> created applies only to a new type of goods and services that can be
> produced on abundant basis and that came together with the realization that
> the new type of currency is abundance-sustaining rather than scarcity
> enforcing, which is how the existing currency is.
>
> So at that point I realized that what I'm developing is actually a layer on
> top of the existing economy (you may call it an "epiconomy" as in epi layer)
> and that the use of P2P Energy as the driver for productivity could very
> well be replaced with the use of P2P Computing Energy (cpu and internet
> bandwidth rather than electricity) which would then allow the at-cost
> exchange enabled by the model to replace the rudimentary models in use today
> for open source content (goods) and open source development (services), so
> then the model can be used for creating an economy for such open, digital
> goods and services that promotes the true sustainable abundance of such
> goods and services, so instead of the money in the model being created based
> on the increase in electric P2P Energy flows from peers (or nodes) with
> surplus to nodes with deficit it would be based on the increase in P2P
> Compute Energy flow from peers (or nodes) with surplus to nodes with
> deficit.
>
> So that's what it's for, in the short term, i.e. an economy for digital
> goods and services that promotes sustainable abundance in those goods and
> services significantly beyond what can be achieved today with very
> rudimentary models in existence today.
>
> That change from P2P Energy to P2P Compute Energy which makes the model
> directly applicable now as opposed to 15 years from now is going to take
> changing the focus in the model's description from ANY type of good or
> service that can be conceivably produced and delivered on sustainable,
> abundant basis to only open source content (goods) and open source
> development (services.)
>
> The existing models for open source content and open source development do
> not yeild true sustainable abundance. I had a discussion with Michel on that
> and I found out all popular open source software relies heavily and
> critically on major corporate donors. And as far as open source content
> goes, the P2P Compute Energy Economy (the variant of the current model I
> have that I'm discussing here) would allow  a transition to a "P2P youtube"
> whereas the current youtube.com is a multi-billion dollar operation that
> is owned by Google. So in both cases for open source content (goods) and
> open source development (service), which are inter-related as the latter can
> be used to produce the former and vice versa, we need a new economy that is
> based on an abundance-sustaining currency as well as a whole host of
> features (which are captured in the Propositions under Model Development and
> in the introduction sections of the User Manual) that when combined together
> give us true sustainable abundance.
>
> That's where I'm going with it.
>
> So to answer your question, I am building a meta algorithm for sustainable
> abundance in open source content and open source development based on an
> axiomatic model.
>
> The "P2P Energy" portion will probably remain there and the model will be
> forked to create the P2P Compute Energy variant, and that's because the
> latter is applicable today while the former is applicable in 15-25 years
> down the road, when the SmartGrid technology matures to the point where it
> can be used as described in the model.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Roberto Verzola <rverzola at gn.apc.org>
> wrote:
> > I will read your pieces carefully first before making substantial
> comments.
> > I find it more fruitful to go over the complete description of a concept
> > and know that well first, before discussing details.
> >
> > By the way, are you architecting an economic structure or constructing
> the
> > details of some parts of it? Information-hiding also has economic
> > analogies, I argue in the piece I wrote on reliability-efficiency.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Roberto
> >
> >
> > On Monday 16 February 2009 04:17:31 you wrote:
> >> Hi Roberto,
> >>
> >> I realize the current potential vagueness about the nature of the
> >> coupling within the model I have been describing.
> >>
> >> >From reading the Inter-Dependence section, there is one bullet (#3)
> >>
> >> under "eliminating monopolies" paragraph that explains the nature of
> >> the coupling.
> >>
> >> The way reliability is achieved is by constantly breaking the
> >> inter-dependency network (and hierarchy) and rebuilding it with every
> >> transaction. It's a new kind of coupling that works as follows:
> >>
> >> To explain it in more detail, the first parameter in the matching of
> >> buyers and sellers is the affinity between the buyer's social,
> >> environmental and ecological values and those of the seller and the
> >> good or service in question. The second parameter is the affinity
> >> between the buyer's specified attributes for the given good or service
> >> and those of the available goods or services from all vendors under
> >> the same category, which includes the quantity but does not include
> >> price since prices for all goods and services in the P2P Energy
> >> Economy are based on the median cost in work energy it takes to
> >> produce and deliver that good or service. The third parameter, which
> >> is supplied by the system, is the seller's lender credits. The
> >> priority of each parameter is fixed by the sequence given here.
> >>
> >> Assuming that the buyer keeps his parameters the same (for a given
> >> period of time) the only operating variable, when it comes to the
> >> final selection, is the seller's lender credits, so the more a seller
> >> shares their revenue through zero-interest lending the higher they
> >> rank in the pre-final selection and the more revenue they generate,
> >> i.e. the more they share, the more they have.
> >>
> >> The buyer is given a final match based on picking a random seller from
> >> the top 30 sellers from the preceding selection, which is akin to
> >> buyers clicking on a link from the first three pages of  a Google
> >> search result.
> >>
> >> ~~
> >>
> >> hope this clarifies it
> >>
> >> :-)
> >>
> >> Marc
> >>
> >> On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Om Besh <ombesh at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi Roberto,
> >> >
> >> > As a software architect I understand loose coupling
> >> > (publish-subscribe) vs RCP calls (tight coupling) so I have been
> >> > thinking about it too in the context of the exchange mechanism.
> >> >
> >> > I'll read what you had written, think about it and let you know.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> >
> >> > Marc
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 6:04 AM, Roberto Verzola <rverzola at gn.apc.org
> >
> > wrote:
> >> >> Hi Marc,
> >> >>
> >> >> Regarding your point about increased inter-dependence, you may want
> >> >> to read my piece on reliability vs. efficiency (just search the Web
> >> >> for "reliability efficiency verzola". I argue from a system
> >> >> designer's perspective, in which complex systems are divided into
> >> >> modules to improve reliability. One rule of modular design says
> >> >> "loose coupling between modules", and "tight coupling within each
> >> >> module", with obvious economic analogies.
> >> >>
> >> >> Greetings,
> >> >>
> >> >> Roberto
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sunday 15 February 2009 09:30:11 you wrote:
> >> >>> Thanks Roberto.
> >> >>> I will go over it this weekend.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> While a lot of what I'm working with can converges to the same goal
> >> >>> as that of your work, i.e. sustainable abundance, I see that
> >> >>> scarcity will always be present in one form or another (e.g. new
> >> >>> inventions are by definition scarce) so the entire model I'm
> >> >>> developing seems to work best if it's treated a separate layer on
> >> >>> top of the existing economy, where the latter will always exist in
> >> >>> the short term (e.g. the next few centuries)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> In addition to abundance and how to sustain it, I'm trying to
> >> >>> investigate and rationally reason about other issues such as the
> >> >>> push for specialization over generalization in the current economy.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Here is a section I added that deals with that (which can be thought
> >> >>> of as "how to assure abundance in autonomy")
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Increased Autonomy Through Increased Inter-Dependence
> >> >>>
> >> >>> In the current economy, reliance on one or few major players in each
> >> >>> given market has created an unsustainable system. When the top 2 or
> >> >>> 3 investment banks in each country failed the entire global
> >> >>> financial industry collapsed, which has caused the global economy to
> >> >>> falter (search: global economic meltdown 2008.)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> In the P2P Energy Economy, increased autonomy is achieved by putting
> >> >>> power with the whole rather than with one or few major players.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The current economic meltdown (search: global economic meltdown
> >> >>> 2008) is a proof that we have reached or are reaching the limits of
> >> >>> sustainability for the current economic paradigm, and that 'peer
> >> >>> production' (the production of energy, goods and services by
> >> >>> individuals as opposed to utilities and factories,) will make the
> >> >>> system dependent on the people as a whole, instead of on one or few
> >> >>> major players, which, as we can see, based on the current paradigm,
> >> >>> makes the people dependent on the system and renders them helpless
> >> >>> in times of instability, thus perpetuating and even deepening their
> >> >>> dependence on the system.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> One of the key concepts behind the P2P Energy Economy is that it
> >> >>> replaces an increased dependence by the users on the system (i.e. on
> >> >>> the major players) with an increased inter-dependence between
> >> >>> equally empowered peers, which puts the power with the whole and
> >> >>> allows both the users and the system to enjoy true autonomy (or
> >> >>> power.)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> A great example of increased autonomy through increased
> >> >>> inter-dependence is the Internet, where increased inter-dependence
> >> >>> between content producers, which manifests in the continuous
> >> >>> production, re-distribution and remixing of shared content by
> >> >>> equally empowered producers (e.g. bloggers, youtubers) has led to
> >> >>> increased autonomy for the medium as well as for the producers.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> When it comes to the idea that self-sufficiency leads to autonomy,
> >> >>> we can point to the fact that no amount of self-sufficiency can
> >> >>> compete with the autonomy achieved by being part of a great
> >> >>> inter-dependent whole.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> For instance, in the case of North Korea, a fully self-sufficient
> >> >>> country that can make nukes from scratch, the fact is that despite
> >> >>> having many educated and capable scientists and engineers, a hard
> >> >>> working population, and many natural resources (including
> >> >>> agricultural resources) they don't have the autonomy (or power) to
> >> >>> achieve the standards of living (including nutrition) that would be
> >> >>> theirs if they were an part of a greater inter-dependent whole.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So if bloggers and youtubers did not produce their own content and
> >> >>> did not re-distribute and remix content from other bloggers and
> >> >>> youtubers, the Internet (or Web) as a medium would not have had the
> >> >>> autonomy that it has today and the same goes for the bloggers and
> >> >>> youtubers, as they would be dependent on the few producers that
> >> >>> existed before the Web was born, e.g. TV stations, newspapers, etc.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Having said that, inter-dependence can easily turn into dependence
> >> >>> when most producers become consumers, redistributors and remixers of
> >> >>> a few original producers.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> This can happen due to two reasons:
> >> >>> 1. The majority of producers consume far more than they produce.2.
> >> >>> Certain producers have access to a scarce resource (e.g. insider
> >> >>> news in case of bloggers like TechCrunch and access to huge amounts
> >> >>> of video content in case of youtubers like CBS and other major TV
> >> >>> channels) or a higher place in some established hierarchy (e.g.
> >> >>> Washington Post vs. Joe Blogger) use this unfair advantage to buy
> >> >>> out the most successful of the small producers (Joe Blogger and Joe
> >> >>> Youtuber) in order to reinforce others' dependency on themselves.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The answer to both problems is to assure maximum inter-dependence in
> >> >>> the design of the system.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The way the "maximum inter-dependence" condition is assured in the
> >> >>> P2P Energy Economy is by having producers trade in goods and
> >> >>> services based on the cost in work energy it takes to produce and
> >> >>> deliver the given good or service, so that in order for someone to
> >> >>> consume, redistribute or remix another producer's goods or services
> >> >>> they need to pay for those goods or services in joule tokens at the
> >> >>> same amount in work energy it took to produce and deliver those
> >> >>> goods or services, which means that they have to produce their own
> >> >>> goods and services (or produce surplus energy) that they can trade
> >> >>> with other producers at the cost in work energy it takes to produce
> >> >>> and deliver the given good or service, e.g. by using joule tokens.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Another way the "maximum inter-dependence" condition is assured in
> >> >>> the P2P Energy Economy is by eliminating monopolies.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> When it comes to monopolies, they are eliminated in the P2P Energy
> >> >>> Economy by the following conditions:
> >> >>> 1. All industries must meet the following conditions for sustainable
> >> >>> abundance:a. Efficient, On-demand Production (which permits
> >> >>> predictive inventory management so producers don't have to over
> >> >>> produce, which causes waste and inefficiency and is therefore
> >> >>> unsustainable, or under produce which causes shortages and high
> >> >>> prices, which is also unsustainable)b. Decentralized,
> >> >>> Inter-dependent Production (which assures there's no dependence on a
> >> >>> few suppliers)c. Renewable Production (which assures there's no
> >> >>> dependence on scarce resources)d. Scalable Production (which assures
> >> >>> that volume is not limited by the production process)e. Open Source
> >> >>> Production (which assures that the good or service can be produced
> >> >>> by anyone, while enforcing social and moral rights of the
> >> >>> originator, not their right to a monopoly.)f. Non-Scarce Qualities
> >> >>> (which assures the absence of any scarce qualities that would
> >> >>> justify paying more than the cost of work energy it takes to produce
> >> >>> and deliver the given good or service)g. Non-Scarce Dependencies
> >> >>> (which assures that there are no dependencies in the
> >> >>> cost-of-work-energy calculation on any goods or services that do not
> >> >>> meet the above conditions.)h. Fair Compensation (which assures that
> >> >>> all producers are paid at the median cost in work energy that goes
> >> >>> into making and delivering their good or service and based on their
> >> >>> efficiency and creativity, not based on their place in the hierarchy
> >> >>> or their access to a scarce resource.)i. Open Education (which
> >> >>> assures that all peers have access to education at the cost in work
> >> >>> energy it takes to produce and deliver that education.)j. Equitable
> >> >>> Exchange (which assures that producers recoup the cost in work
> >> >>> energy it takes them to produce and deliver a given good or
> >> >>> service.)(When the above conditions for sustainable abundance are
> >> >>> met, everyone who wants to get any number of instances of a given
> >> >>> good or service should be able to do so at the [median] cost in work
> >> >>> energy it takes to produce and deliver that good or service X number
> >> >>> of instances.)2. Consumers are automatically and anonymously matched
> >> >>> to producers based on the required attributes for the given good or
> >> >>> service, the producer's lender credits (see: Lender and Borrower
> >> >>> Credits) and the affinity between the consumer's and the producer's
> >> >>> social, ecological and environmental values, so producers do not own
> >> >>> access to the consumer.3. Producers are required to share their
> >> >>> revenue through lending in order to rank higher as sellers, which
> >> >>> assures that in order for a given producer to empower themselves
> >> >>> they have to empower
> >> >>> everyone.[edit<
> http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Energy_Economy?title=P2P
> >> >>>_Ene rgy_Economy&action=edit&section=10> ]
> >> >>> An Economy for Human Beings, Not Insects
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Most insects are designed to be specialized.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Most humans are designed to be generalists.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> But in today's economy, most humans are taught to behave exactly
> >> >>> like insects.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The economic and globalization theories in use today (which are
> >> >>> based in part on Adam Smith's antiquated treatise) encourage
> >> >>> specialization.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> They say let India be the IT provider and let the USA be the
> >> >>> creative force. This pattern of specialization is fractal in that it
> >> >>> is reflected in each part within such specialized economies,
> >> >>> including the USA, where the majority of organizations are highly
> >> >>> matrixed containers (or bee hives) of worker bees, with true
> >> >>> generalists competing for the one and only true generalist position,
> >> >>> that of the queen bee.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> As to why there aren't more true generalists in today's
> >> >>> organizations, those who happen to be true generalists but are not
> >> >>> "controlling" AND "manipulative" enough to hold power over their own
> >> >>> peers, find no place in the bee hive unless they demonstrate a
> >> >>> particular specialized skill, which turns them into specialists, and
> >> >>> while they may continue to think of themselves as generalists, they
> >> >>> are rewarded according to a specific set of goals, which
> >> >>> continuously moves them away from generalization and into greater
> >> >>> degree of specialization.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thus, the only truly autonomous (or free) bees in today's economy
> >> >>> are the self-governing bees roaming freely on their own outside the
> >> >>> bee hive, i.e. without a hive of their own, but such self-governing
> >> >>> peers are greatly disempowered by the design of today's economy.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> There is an ideological movement today that promotes the idea of one
> >> >>> being their own queen bee by being a self sufficient entity with no
> >> >>> critical dependencies. Yet, as argued in the previous section true
> >> >>> autonomy can only be achieved through increased inter-dependence
> >> >>> between equally empowered peers (see: Increased Autonomy Through
> >> >>> Increased Inter-Dependence.)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Since every peer in the P2P Energy Economy is equally empowered as a
> >> >>> producer of energy, goods and service, and since the system promotes
> >> >>> maximum inter-dependence, everyone is guaranteed a level of security
> >> >>> that is based on their work energy, efficiency and creativity, so no
> >> >>> one should need to work _for_ someone else.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> However, peers with energy surplus, goods or services needed for the
> >> >>> production of other goods or services by others may equitably
> >> >>> exchange their surplus energy, goods or services with peers who need
> >> >>> them (to get the goods and services they need for themselves and
> >> >>> those they need for producing their own goods and services,)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Since, when trading, peers are matched automatically and anonymously
> >> >>> per the buying peer's search criteria, selling peer's lender
> >> >>> credits, and the affinity in social, ecological and environmental
> >> >>> values between the peers, ad-hoc production hierarchies, with
> >> >>> equally empowered members, are constantly formed and dissolved.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Therefore, the P2P Energy Economy enables true autonomy for the
> >> >>> individual peer and for the whole economy by continuously breaking
> >> >>> the hive structure and by promoting increased inter-dependence
> >> >>> between equally empowered peers, where each peer is free to
> >> >>> specialize (or vest themselves) in any number of skills and the more
> >> >>> skills a peer has the greater is their inter-dependency network and
> >> >>> the greater is their autonomy.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> In other words, unlike today's economy, the P2P Energy Economy does
> >> >>> not 'pigeon hole' individuals in fixed roles from which they cannot
> >> >>> easily act transformatively. It does the opposite by encouraging
> >> >>> each peer to have the widest range of specialization, and in doing
> >> >>> so it enables peers to reach their full human potential, as
> >> >>> generalists (or 'producers with many areas of specialization') who
> >> >>> are empowered to transform themselves and their environment as only
> >> >>> generalists can.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ~~
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> More at:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Roberto Verzola
> >> >>
> >> >> <rverzola at gn.apc.org>wrote:
> >> >>> > Hi Marc,
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Michel send me your request. Here's my piece on abundance,
> >> >>> > Greetings from the Philippines,
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Roberto
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

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