[p2p-research] One more -last- question :-)

[Michel Bauwens]

Dear Paul,

I find this very insightful,

would you consider it to expand it just a little more, for inclusion perhaps
in the blog, but for sure also as an important introduction to this section
of our wiki:

http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Relational

Michel

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Paul B. Hartzog <paulbhartzog at gmail.com>wrote:

> Inclusion and exclusion are a consequence of drawing boundaries which
> is a fundamental fact of life.  The challenge in both communities and
> knowledge spaces is how to create aggregates in which boundaries are
> interpenetrated and overlapping.
>
> In knowledge spaces, it's tagging, i.e. non-"mutually exclusive"
> categorization schemas.  In communities it's cosmopolitan
> multiculturalism, i.e. non-"mutually exclusive" categories.
>
> I think that the problem has always been central to human
> civilization, but the information technologies of the 21st century
> have given us an ease and speed that bring the problem to the fore.
>
> Not sure if I said this before, but I always end with Adorno:  we
> can't avoid categories and boundaries, so all we can do, and we MUST
> do it, is to remain reflective and compassionate about our inclusions
> and exclusions.
>
> -Paul
>
> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I disagree,
> >
> > the reason is the following:
> >
> > - when we have abundant resources, we do not have to fight for them, but
> can
> > use self-aggregation
> >
> > - when we have scarcity, we have to decide about allocation, which we can
> do
> > democratically, hierarchically, or through a market mechanism, but it is
> > unavoidably conflictual and creates a selective power to choose
> >
> > Sometime the difference is objective, but it can also be a design
> question
> >
> > and what deletionism does, is to artificially create a scarcity and hence
> a
> > power mechanism where none was objectively necessary
> >
> > so it is a fundamental issue
> >
> > but it springs from another one which is: how to design for excellence
> >
> > and it is a wrong answer to that problem,
> >
> > now of course you can argue that even with deletionism, an appropriate
> > democratic mechanism may have been selected, and that would have
> mitigated
> > the rampant power abuse ...
> >
> > so in a way, there are different levels of analysis, very much
> inter-related
> > so that any root cause never exists on its own, causing all the others,
> >
> > Michel
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Vasilis Kostakis <kostakis.b at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Michel and Paul,
> >>
> >> Cedric, an ex-Wikipedian prominent member of WPReview, said to me the
> >> following:
> >>
> >> To be fair, it is quite possible that there still would have been a
> >> "inclusionism" vs. "deletionism" debate on Wikipedia even if it had a
> far
> >> more rational and functional governance model. It's just that it would
> have
> >> been less of a distraction. In the end, I think that is the best
> description
> >> for it: "a distraction"; for "inclusionism" vs. "deletionism" is a
> symptom,
> >> not a root problem.
> >>
> >> What do you think of the aforementioned statement? Is in fact this
> debate
> >> a symptom and not a root problem?
> >>
> >> Thank you so much,
> >>
> >> Cordially,
> >>
> >> V.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Vasilis Kostakis
> >>
> >> http://p2pfoundation.net/Vasilis_Kostakis
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
> > alternatives.
> >
> > Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
> > http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p
> >
> > Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
> > http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
> > BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
> > http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU
> >
> > KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.PaulBHartzog.org
> http://www.panarchy.com
> PaulBHartzog at PaulBHartzog.org
> PaulBHartzog at panarchy.com
> PHartzog at umich.edu
> --------------------------------------------------------
> The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms.
>                 --Muriel Rukeyser
>
> See differently, then you will act differently.
>                  --Paul B. Hartzog
> --------------------------------------------------------
>



-- 
The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
alternatives.

Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p

Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU

KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/
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