[p2p-research] fakeness of recovery

[Michel Bauwens]

We clearly disagree about Latin America, I  think they have a fair chance at
building a much more just social compact right now, and I think the historic
awakening of their natives peoples are hugely important, as is the
development of the social economy at the grassroots, whatever we may think
of the left caudillos in power. I think a social democratic Andean
capitalism is going to be a force to be reckoned with.

As for Europe, demographics are in my view essential to explain the reaction
of fear: people are getting older and fear above all losing what they got,
young people are getting scarce and discouraged by the stagnation, while the
immigrant populations are the only ones growing, but unlike the U.S. they
seem much less welcome and a strong nativist reaction is brewing amongst the
disenfranchised poor which have abandoned the left in favor of the new right
... (however, they is a new breed of more radical left parties that is
gaining ground in some countries and could play a role in the future, if the
current drift to the right doesn't bring answers) On the other hand, it has
much less of the severe underlying social tensions which may collapse the
U.S., the decline of Europe is probably going to be much slower.

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

>  On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> but the U.S. underground seems to be more dynamic and innovative than the
>> European one, at least it would seem so on the surface,
>>
>> Latin America is greatly innovative for the moment, perhaps the spearhead
>> for the moment,
>>
>> I'm less sure about East Asia, it certainly appears to me that they are
>> most interested in copying the fifties model for the moment
>>
>> but in Japan, despite the official stagnation, lots and lots of social
>> innovation is happening under the radar,
>>
>> Michel
>>
>
> I actually disagree about Latin America...but I am ignorant.  It seems a
> socialist morass to me tied to population and government budget time bombs.
> Venezuela is on the brink of collapse.  War is really their only
> answer...thus they rattle the sabers with Colombia.  Brazil looks somewhat
> promising.  Argentina is practically a US state...uses the dollar, looks
> like California, etc.  I hear from people who visit there that it feels very
> American.  Costa Rica, Honduras, etc...all in political and/or gang crises.
> Panama seems to be doing quite well.  Mexico is always on the
> brink...American (sorry, US) politicians are terrified Mexico will implode.
>
>
> Japan, agreed.  I think it is the future...they are facing the end-times
> that Europe is ignoring, but the difference is they are not so much
> importing cheap labor at the cost of their social identity.
>
> I try to be hopeful about Africa, but they always seem to find a new way to
> fail.  Asia...is the future.  If I were young, I'd go and find my place
> there as the coming century becomes what it will be in Japan, Korea,
> Thailand, China, Indonesia, India, etc.  It is a huge fraction of the
> population and the land mass.  But that is an American worldview...moving to
> where the future will be.
>
> I read where Portland Oregon is the second most green city on the planet.
> How one does that it an American context, I have no idea.  I also read where
> Switzerland recycles 90%+ of its glass.  Amazing.  Maybe we need to be less
> bounded and more open to the possibilities that seem to be emerging all
> over.  All those old prejudices and walls die hard.
>
> I wonder why good software isn't coming from Latin America or Africa yet?
> There is something about peripheries and technology development that is very
> strange...even where they could amass skills, they do not.
>



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