[p2p-research] blue economy book; beyond scarcity through economies of scope

Tue Dec 15 09:17:44 CET 2009

Thanks Roberto, for this very interesting comments,

I think you have it right, some, like Pauli, try to change the world
situation without touching the power structure, others, like you think it is
essential, and I tend to agree with the latter, nevertheless, a combination
of new tech and new forms of social power could be very powerful, as is the
use of the internet by change agents for example.

A related issue is how does the peer to peer movement generally relate to
neocapitalist forces as expressed by Pauli, I think we share a commonality
and should be allies,

Michel

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 6:28 AM, Roberto Verzola <rverzola at gn.apc.org>wrote:

> Hi Michel,
>
> I've gone throught the website you gave below and read the
> article carefully (as well as its continuation).
>
> I like Pauli's positive approach of focusing on solutions rather
> than problems. I agree with many of his messages about
> possibilities of abundance and cascades (he uses this word too)
> of abundance.
>
> I tend however to be more wary of technological solutions than he
> is. Every new technology must be thoroughly analyzed for hidden
> biases and built-in ideologies which might work against the
> values that we promote. I haven't done these with the
> technologies Pauli cites and therefore have little to say yet
> about each of the different new technologies he enthuses over.
>
> I also tend to look for social solutions, more than technological
> solutions (often "fixes" that create their own problems).
>
> I am not saying that Pauli's approach is wrong and mine is right,
> only that our approaches differ somewhat. Overall, it is
> important to explore different approaches, so it is still useful
> to explore the directions he is looking into. Perhaps many (or
> even most) of the technologies he cites will turn out to be
> actually useful. But we have also had many technologies that
> looked initially promising but whose unintended side-effects
> turned out later to cause serious problems. But we do need to
> look at every new technology and assess it, as Pauli is doing.
>
> I would ask an additional question though: is there something we
> can simply do among ourselves -- as individuals, households,
> communities, societies -- to solve the same problem the new
> technology is trying to solve? Then I'd do a detailed comparison
> of the technological and social approaches. A few examples:
> - for couples who can't bear children, do we need new
> reproductive technologies (like test tube babies) or can't they
> simply adopt an orphan?
> - to solve electoral fraud, do we need to resort to automated
> voting and counting systems, or do we simply need to punish the
> cheats?
> - I heard this example from the late Teddy Goldsmith of The
> Ecologist: how did people deal with too much food when there
> were no refrigerators yet? (Ans.: they threw a party!)
>
> Many times, of course, the answer is not either/or, so the choice
> between social and technological solution is not that simple.
>
> My main issue with Pauli's approach, however, is what seems to be
> a glossing over of the power of corporations. I am not sure that
> this is a valid concern because I have not read his other
> publications. He might have covered this elsewhere. Given the
> extent of the political, economic and cultural power of today's
> corporations, any effort to reform them (like Pauli's, when he
> talks of "new business models" that corporations may adopt) must
> contend with corporate counter-efforts to stick to highly
> profitable but ecologically- and socially-damaging models. What
> if corporations adopt the technologies on Pauli's list because
> they are quite profitable, but subsequent unintended
> side-effects then require that the profitable technology be
> withdrawn from the market? Will the corporations withdraw them?
>
> In fact, this is the greatest challenge of our era, from my
> perspective. It is not the search for new technologies for
> solving our current problems, but the search for ways to disable
> corporations who use their vast powers to continue their
> destructive ways because it is profitable for them to do so. It
> is a social problem, not a technological one.
>
> That said, I would include Pauli and Zeri among my readings.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Roberto
>
> On Tuesday 15 December 2009 1:12:20 am you wrote:
> > thanks Roberto, I hope to get your thoughts on this,
> >
> > Michel
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Roberto Verzola
> <rverzola at gn.apc.org>wrote:
> > > Hi Michel,
> > >
> > > This is just to acknowledge receipt. I need more time to go
> > > through the piece. Greetings,
> > >
> > > Roberto
> > >
> > > On Sunday 13 December 2009 2:42:38 pm you wrote:
> > > > Hi Roberto;
> > > >
> > > > you may have seen how I serialized your essay on abundance
> > > >
> > > > could you have a look at
> > > > http://p2pfoundation.net/Blue_Economy
> > > >
> > > > I asked Ryan to look into it; but extra commentary for
> > > > publication in our blog would be appreciated
> > > >
> > > > Michel
> > > >
> > > > "
> > > >
> > > > Up to now, the model driving our economies depended on
> > > > perpetual growth, requiring ever more resources and
> > > > investments. This model has inherent flaws. It leads to
> > > > unjust societies, highly skewed and exploitative
> > > > economies, and devastated ecosystems. The business model
> > > > that defines corporate environmental responsibility in
> > > > terms of size of investment, and defines corporate success
> > > > as increased shareholder value and grandiose executive
> > > > compensation, must be replaced. The new economy must be
> > > > more effective and more collaborative. It must become
> > > > truly sustainable, introducing innovations that permit
> > > > less investment, generate more revenues, and build the
> > > > strengths of a community and builds up social capital -
> > > > not debt. This is the business framework that will drive
> > > > the new Blue Economy. This is the framework that will seek
> > > > out and define true sustainability for all living species
> > > > on Earth.
> > > >
> > > > The prevailing economic model predicates that scarcity is
> > > > the major limitation. Industry searches for ever higher
> > > > agricultural yields and manufactory outputs, demanding
> > > > that the Earth and human labor produce more. We must
> > > > re-evaluate this notion and begin to more fully utilize
> > > > what the Earth and labor produce, rather than demanding
> > > > more materials and more output. It is time to end the
> > > > insatiable quest for ever lower costs that drives business
> > > > towards economies of scale through egamergers and
> > > > acquisitions financed by billion dollar loans. It is time
> > > > to adopt broad-based innovative strategies that generate
> > > > multiple revenues and greater cash flows while creating
> > > > more jobs. It is time for a Blue Economy."
>
>
>

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