[p2p-research] Workshop on Media Ecologies: Q&A: Sam Rose

[Samuel Rose]

Michel,

Wagn is a new-ish wiki engine that makes
http://communitywiki.org/MicroContent style contributions more
possible, by taking advantage of "transclusion", editing in place, and
other technical affordances.

In wagn, everything, including users, comments, any individual entry,
are "cards". So wagn is a flat data model in that sense. Making
everything one type of object allows for some interesting things to
happen.

Card "types" are really just tags on the card object. It lets you make
a custom co-editable content management system on the fly. Wagn also
lets you "transclude" or name and include many "cards" or pages onto
one page.

This collection could then be exported with some extensions like those
that Paul and myself are making, maybe printed as pdf, embedded into a
blog post, etc etc

Wagn also makes WYSIWYG page editing possible by default. You can also
turn "card" pages into forms with some simple sytanx and page naming.
This really makes wagn a usable front end for creating a database of
information (and customization of interface does not require a
programmer).



On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 6:48 PM, Michel Bauwens<michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Nathan, phoebe, sam, et al.
>
> I must admit that I'm not at present following the minute technical q and a
> taking place, but I'm guessing that Sam indeed is making crucial meta points
> that need to be communicated at the congress.
>
> I forgot if Sam is coming or not, but if not, the online intervention will
> be crucial.
>
> I'm hearing a lot about Wagn: is it important and so why, and if so, can
> someone help introducing/reporting on it for the p2p blog, as crucial part
> of the new p2p infrastructure,
>
> Michel
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Nathan Cravens <knuggy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sam,
>>
>> You're welcome to repost any messages I send from Facebook--if that's what
>> you mean.
>> What questions I've left unanswered, you have either exceeded my ability
>> to answer them with your answers or they are outside my knowledge areas and
>> better answered by our friends on this list.
>>>
>>> 4. Although, for open source frameworks and platforms, groupware,
>>> applications, etc, We can look at how existing objects within
>>> applications (like dates, identities, keywords, content objects, etc
>>> etc) can be output in plural ways, under a diverse array of standard
>>> output ways, to allow for wide re-use. This does not have to be done
>>> by tedious extension of the native application. This is an overlooked
>>> but extremely important design choice. The amount of effort that it
>>> takes to extend an application that was not designed to do what you
>>> are trying to do is exponentially more than creating the simple
>>> mechanisms outside of the application, and giving the mechanisms
>>> secure access to the data within the application. An example: Media
>>> wiki was not originally designed to be a content recommendation engine
>>> that works with K-means clustering algorithm. So, if you design this
>>> functionality as a non-commercial service that lives outside of media
>>> wiki, and adapters that let it read from and write back to media wiki,
>>> the service is also available to potentially all other wiki engines as
>>> well, and the amount of work to make it compatible with Media Wiki
>>> software is far, far less than if the Media Wiki scripts themselves
>>> have to do the heavy lifting and processing of the new functionality.
>>> The external service need only be able to access data from media wiki
>>> (either via a RESTful service or directly from the database) and to
>>> write back to Media Wiki in a way that MW is expecting to see pages
>>> and content (when it is deemed necessary to programmatically write
>>> content to MW).
>>
>> I hope, when you have time, you describe this point more clearly. There's
>> lots of unnecessary cognitive lifting involved. It sounds as if you've made
>> some monumental breakthroughs and now doing your best to describe the
>> practical applications the code sets intend in a short amount of time. Your
>> work sounds really exciting, Sam. I look forward to seeing you and Paul
>> describe how it works more clearly.
>> I'll present a demonstration story below; one I can better understand;
>> that you may want to consider applying in some way; and sooner than later;
>> as the p2p foundation becomes able to fund projects like yours.
>>
>>>
>>> We believe an approach is needed that does not care what application
>>> you are using, what programming language it is in, nor even what your
>>> processes are (although knowing all of this helps), but only minimally
>>> requires that you output in some way that is a standard that can be
>>> mapped against. That output is where Paul and myself have created a
>>> standard, which is a way to abstract above the common existing
>>> barriers between web software applications. We have code that works
>>> with Wagn now, that will allow for this abstraction, and we'll have
>>> several demos for Nov.  We have even extended this to microcontrollers
>>> like Arduino, and will likely provide a demo of this, too.
>>
>> FLOWS in action? Even with implementation of this protocol translator,
>> there will remain a great deal of work to do, but this will save a great
>> deal of work toward higher level functions and for great self sufficiency.
>>
>>> It would be good to know the exact processes of the meeting in Nov.
>>> Will this be presentation based? Or, some other format? Either way, we
>>> will be able to show some actual code demonstrations connecting wagn
>>> with other open source apps, services, etc. Plus, we're ready to talk
>>> about the underlying theory that drove us into this direction as
>>> developers.
>>
>> Once we know our speaker/panel line-up we'll have a detailed outline of
>> the meeting. I'm doing my best to work with Phoebe and Michel to get the
>> most out of this one day event. Suggestions are most welcome. ;)
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks, Nathan, Phoebe, and Michel for putting this together. A really
>>> needed meeting of minds in my opinion
>>
>> Its about time as far as I'm concerned. And it looks as if the time is
>> right...
>> I really appreciate Phoebe and Michel for performing those particular
>> academic autocracies I lack tolerance in facing on my own. Phoebe is lifting
>> a majority of the autocratic weight, so we might want to thank her most of
>> all when giving appreciation for the workshop setting itself.
>> So Sam, get your story cap on and imagine how you might apply this
>> demonstration to your own work:
>>
>> We're at a conference taking place inside an auditorium.
>> Everyone can see projected how you are accessing a graphical interface.
>> You go to a search page and type the name of the event you are attending.
>> A page for the event is accessed.
>> You find a 'dynamic' blueprint or map of the very room you are presenting
>> from.
>> >From this map you are able to see what objects you can access to
>> manipulate in some way.
>> A mobile robotic arm in set upon a desk. A sheet of paper is nearby on the
>> desk.
>> From the map you are able to locate the sheet of paper from your screen,
>> select it, then use the cursor to fold it into a particular shape. This is a
>> new design, never before virtually shaped in this way.
>> After confirming your entry, the robot arm, with that information, folds
>> the paper to your specifications.
>> Demonstration complete.
>>
>> When things of this sort become common and seamless, it is imperative that
>> we make theft obsolete! That cannot be stressed enough! It is for reasons
>> such as this I have described open manufacturing in a positive rather
>> than neutral manners: positive in the sense that it must also render
>> everything  'gratis' or free to have at no monetary cost, but also without
>> sacrificing lives, our own and the ecologies that sustain us.
>> After Smári's jaw dropping presentation of Industry 2.0, I hope achieving
>> such an aim does not seem so daunting.
>>
>> Nathan
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam wrote:
>>
>> ""
>> Nathan,
>>
>> Is it ok to repost your email to via facebook to this list?
>>
>> I have a couple of questions that will help me prepare for coming to
>> this conference
>> http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/event.php?eid=63814529959&ref=ts :
>>
>> 1. What are the existing open source software platforms that are being
>> developed, or commonly used?  I am aware of
>> http://wiki.openkollab.com/Home (wagn) Media Wiki, GNU Mailman
>> listserv, WordPress, Drupal, and a few Prowiki and OddMuse wiki users
>> (Redmine is the basis of Open Pario for open source tech dev ). Any
>> others that I am missing there? Are people using Trac?
>>
>> 2. What are the commercial services being used among networks of
>> people interested in this discussion? I am aware of Google Groups,
>> Facebook, Twitter, Ning, identi.ca, Skype, FriendFeed? anything else?
>>
>> 3. most importantly, what are the existing open standards that are
>> usable among both open source platforms and commercial services? The
>> open source platforms are obviously potentially unlimited, so this
>> question is really about the commercial services.
>>
>> 4. Although, for open source frameworks and platforms, groupware,
>> applications, etc, We can look at how existing objects within
>> applications (like dates, identities, keywords, content objects, etc
>> etc) can be output in plural ways, under a diverse array of standard
>> output ways, to allow for wide re-use. This does not have to be done
>> by tedious extension of the native application. This is an overlooked
>> but extremely important design choice. The amount of effort that it
>> takes to extend an application that was not designed to do what you
>> are trying to do is exponentially more than creating the simple
>> mechanisms outside of the application, and giving the mechanisms
>> secure access to the data within the application. An example: Media
>> wiki was not originally designed to be a content recommendation engine
>> that works with K-means clustering algorithm. So, if you design this
>> functionality as a non-commercial service that lives outside of media
>> wiki, and adapters that let it read from and write back to media wiki,
>> the service is also available to potentially all other wiki engines as
>> well, and the amount of work to make it compatible with Media Wiki
>> software is far, far less than if the Media Wiki scripts themselves
>> have to do the heavy lifting and processing of the new functionality.
>> The external service need only be able to access data from media wiki
>> (either via a RESTful service or directly from the database) and to
>> write back to Media Wiki in a way that MW is expecting to see pages
>> and content (when it is deemed necessary to programmatically write
>> content to MW).
>>
>> Number 4 above is a new approach to design, and extends to
>> collaboration platforms that are being used for open source hardware
>> collaborative development, too. Even most commercial services now do
>> this. (All of the above named work with some kind of standard save
>> Ning, see http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing/node/394 )
>>
>> We believe an approach is needed that does not care what application
>> you are using, what programming language it is in, nor even what your
>> processes are (although knowing all of this helps), but only minimally
>> requires that you output in some way that is a standard that can be
>> mapped against. That output is where Paul and myself have created a
>> standard, which is a way to abstract above the common existing
>> barriers between web software applications. We have code that works
>> with Wagn now, that will allow for this abstraction, and we'll have
>> several demos for Nov.  We have even extended this to microcontrollers
>> like Arduino, and will likely provide a demo of this, too.
>>
>> It would be good to know the exact processes of the meeting in Nov.
>> Will this be presentation based? Or, some other format? Either way, we
>> will be able to show some actual code demonstrations connecting wagn
>> with other open source apps, services, etc. Plus, we're ready to talk
>> about the underlying theory that drove us into this direction as
>> developers.
>>
>> Thanks, Nathan, Phoebe, and Michel for putting this together. A really
>> needed meeting of minds in my opinion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Sam Rose
>> Social Synergy
>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>> skype: samuelrose
>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>> http://socialsynergyweb.com
>> http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing
>> http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/
>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>> http://localfoodsystems.org
>> http://notanemployee.net
>> http://communitywiki.org
>>
>> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
>> ambition." - Carl Sagan
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Research:
> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html - Think thank:
> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>



-- 
-- 
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
http://socialsynergyweb.com
http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing
http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/
http://socialmediaclassroom.com
http://localfoodsystems.org
http://notanemployee.net
http://communitywiki.org

"The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
ambition." - Carl Sagan