[p2p-research] Workshop on Media Ecologies: Q&A: Sam Rose

Tue Aug 25 00:48:18 CEST 2009

Hi Nathan, phoebe, sam, et al.

I must admit that I'm not at present following the minute technical q and a
taking place, but I'm guessing that Sam indeed is making crucial meta points
that need to be communicated at the congress.

I forgot if Sam is coming or not, but if not, the online intervention will
be crucial.

I'm hearing a lot about Wagn: is it important and so why, and if so, can
someone help introducing/reporting on it for the p2p blog, as crucial part
of the new p2p infrastructure,

Michel

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Nathan Cravens <knuggy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Sam,
>
> You're welcome to repost any messages I send from Facebook--if that's what
> you mean.
>
> What questions I've left unanswered, you have either exceeded my ability to
> answer them with your answers or they are outside my knowledge areas and
> better answered by our friends on this list.
>
>  4. Although, for open source frameworks and platforms, groupware,
>> applications, etc, We can look at how existing objects within
>> applications (like dates, identities, keywords, content objects, etc
>> etc) can be output in plural ways, under a diverse array of standard
>> output ways, to allow for wide re-use. This does not have to be done
>> by tedious extension of the native application. This is an overlooked
>> but extremely important design choice. The amount of effort that it
>> takes to extend an application that was not designed to do what you
>> are trying to do is exponentially more than creating the simple
>> mechanisms outside of the application, and giving the mechanisms
>> secure access to the data within the application. An example: Media
>> wiki was not originally designed to be a content recommendation engine
>> that works with K-means clustering algorithm. So, if you design this
>> functionality as a non-commercial service that lives outside of media
>> wiki, and adapters that let it read from and write back to media wiki,
>> the service is also available to potentially all other wiki engines as
>> well, and the amount of work to make it compatible with Media Wiki
>> software is far, far less than if the Media Wiki scripts themselves
>> have to do the heavy lifting and processing of the new functionality.
>> The external service need only be able to access data from media wiki
>> (either via a RESTful service or directly from the database) and to
>> write back to Media Wiki in a way that MW is expecting to see pages
>> and content (when it is deemed necessary to programmatically write
>> content to MW).
>
>
> I hope, when you have time, you describe this point more clearly. There's
> lots of unnecessary cognitive lifting involved. It sounds as if you've made
> some monumental breakthroughs and now doing your best to describe the
> practical applications the code sets intend in a short amount of time. Your
> work sounds really exciting, Sam. I look forward to seeing you and Paul
> describe how it works more clearly.
>
> I'll present a demonstration story below; one I can better understand; that
> you may want to consider applying in some way; and sooner than later; as the
> p2p foundation becomes able to fund projects like yours.
>
>
>> We believe an approach is needed that does not care what application
>> you are using, what programming language it is in, nor even what your
>> processes are (although knowing all of this helps), but only minimally
>> requires that you output in some way that is a standard that can be
>> mapped against. That output is where Paul and myself have created a
>> standard, which is a way to abstract above the common existing
>> barriers between web software applications. We have code that works
>> with Wagn now, that will allow for this abstraction, and we'll have
>> several demos for Nov.  We have even extended this to microcontrollers
>> like Arduino, and will likely provide a demo of this, too.
>
>
> FLOWS in action? Even with implementation of this protocol translator,
> there will remain a great deal of work to do, but this will save a great
> deal of work toward higher level functions and for great self sufficiency.
>
>
> It would be good to know the exact processes of the meeting in Nov.
>> Will this be presentation based? Or, some other format? Either way, we
>> will be able to show some actual code demonstrations connecting wagn
>> with other open source apps, services, etc. Plus, we're ready to talk
>> about the underlying theory that drove us into this direction as
>> developers.
>
>
> Once we know our speaker/panel line-up we'll have a detailed outline of the
> meeting. I'm doing my best to work with Phoebe and Michel to get the most
> out of this one day event. Suggestions are most welcome. ;)
>
>
>> Thanks, Nathan, Phoebe, and Michel for putting this together. A really
>> needed meeting of minds in my opinion
>>
>
> Its about time as far as I'm concerned. And it looks as if the time is
> right...
>
> I really appreciate Phoebe and Michel for performing those particular
> academic autocracies I lack tolerance in facing on my own. Phoebe is lifting
> a majority of the autocratic weight, so we might want to thank her most of
> all when giving appreciation for the workshop setting itself.
>
> So Sam, get your story cap on and imagine how you might apply this
> demonstration to your own work:
>
>    - We're at a conference taking place inside an auditorium.
>    - Everyone can see projected how you are accessing a graphical
>    interface.
>    - You go to a search page and type the name of the event you are
>    attending.
>    - A page for the event is accessed.
>    - You find a 'dynamic' blueprint or map of the very room you are
>    presenting from.
>    - >From this map you are able to see what objects you can access to
>    manipulate in some way.
>    - A mobile robotic arm in set upon a desk. A sheet of paper is nearby
>    on the desk.
>    - From the map you are able to locate the sheet of paper from your
>    screen, select it, then use the cursor to fold it into a particular shape.
>    This is a new design, never before virtually shaped in this way.
>    - After confirming your entry, the robot arm, with that information,
>    folds the paper to your specifications.
>    - Demonstration complete.
>
>
> When things of this sort become common and seamless, it is imperative that
> we make theft obsolete! That cannot be stressed enough! It is for reasons
> such as this I have described open manufacturing in a positive rather
> than neutral manners: positive in the sense that it must also render
> everything  'gratis' or free to have at no monetary cost, but also without
> sacrificing lives, our own and the ecologies that sustain us.
>
> After Smári's jaw dropping presentation of Industry 2.0, I hope achieving
> such an aim does not seem so daunting.
>
>
> Nathan
>
>
>
>
> Sam wrote:
>
> ""
> Nathan,
>
> Is it ok to repost your email to via facebook to this list?
>
> I have a couple of questions that will help me prepare for coming to
> this conference
> http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/event.php?eid=63814529959&ref=ts :
>
> 1. What are the existing open source software platforms that are being
> developed, or commonly used?  I am aware of
> http://wiki.openkollab.com/Home (wagn) Media Wiki, GNU Mailman
> listserv, WordPress, Drupal, and a few Prowiki and OddMuse wiki users
> (Redmine is the basis of Open Pario for open source tech dev ). Any
> others that I am missing there? Are people using Trac?
>
> 2. What are the commercial services being used among networks of
> people interested in this discussion? I am aware of Google Groups,
> Facebook, Twitter, Ning, identi.ca, Skype, FriendFeed? anything else?
>
> 3. most importantly, what are the existing open standards that are
> usable among both open source platforms and commercial services? The
> open source platforms are obviously potentially unlimited, so this
> question is really about the commercial services.
>
> 4. Although, for open source frameworks and platforms, groupware,
> applications, etc, We can look at how existing objects within
> applications (like dates, identities, keywords, content objects, etc
> etc) can be output in plural ways, under a diverse array of standard
> output ways, to allow for wide re-use. This does not have to be done
> by tedious extension of the native application. This is an overlooked
> but extremely important design choice. The amount of effort that it
> takes to extend an application that was not designed to do what you
> are trying to do is exponentially more than creating the simple
> mechanisms outside of the application, and giving the mechanisms
> secure access to the data within the application. An example: Media
> wiki was not originally designed to be a content recommendation engine
> that works with K-means clustering algorithm. So, if you design this
> functionality as a non-commercial service that lives outside of media
> wiki, and adapters that let it read from and write back to media wiki,
> the service is also available to potentially all other wiki engines as
> well, and the amount of work to make it compatible with Media Wiki
> software is far, far less than if the Media Wiki scripts themselves
> have to do the heavy lifting and processing of the new functionality.
> The external service need only be able to access data from media wiki
> (either via a RESTful service or directly from the database) and to
> write back to Media Wiki in a way that MW is expecting to see pages
> and content (when it is deemed necessary to programmatically write
> content to MW).
>
> Number 4 above is a new approach to design, and extends to
> collaboration platforms that are being used for open source hardware
> collaborative development, too. Even most commercial services now do
> this. (All of the above named work with some kind of standard save
> Ning, see http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing/node/394 )
>
> We believe an approach is needed that does not care what application
> you are using, what programming language it is in, nor even what your
> processes are (although knowing all of this helps), but only minimally
> requires that you output in some way that is a standard that can be
> mapped against. That output is where Paul and myself have created a
> standard, which is a way to abstract above the common existing
> barriers between web software applications. We have code that works
> with Wagn now, that will allow for this abstraction, and we'll have
> several demos for Nov.  We have even extended this to microcontrollers
> like Arduino, and will likely provide a demo of this, too.
>
> It would be good to know the exact processes of the meeting in Nov.
> Will this be presentation based? Or, some other format? Either way, we
> will be able to show some actual code demonstrations connecting wagn
> with other open source apps, services, etc. Plus, we're ready to talk
> about the underlying theory that drove us into this direction as
> developers.
>
> Thanks, Nathan, Phoebe, and Michel for putting this together. A really
> needed meeting of minds in my opinion
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Sam Rose
> Social Synergy
> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> skype: samuelrose
> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> http://socialsynergyweb.com
> http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing
> http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/
> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
> http://localfoodsystems.org
> http://notanemployee.net
> http://communitywiki.org
>
> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
> ambition." - Carl Sagan
>
>
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>
>

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