[p2p-research] Workshop on Media Ecologies: Q&A: Sam Rose

[Nathan Cravens]

Hi Sam,

You're welcome to repost any messages I send from Facebook--if that's what
you mean.

What questions I've left unanswered, you have either exceeded my ability to
answer them with your answers or they are outside my knowledge areas and
better answered by our friends on this list.

4. Although, for open source frameworks and platforms, groupware,
> applications, etc, We can look at how existing objects within
> applications (like dates, identities, keywords, content objects, etc
> etc) can be output in plural ways, under a diverse array of standard
> output ways, to allow for wide re-use. This does not have to be done
> by tedious extension of the native application. This is an overlooked
> but extremely important design choice. The amount of effort that it
> takes to extend an application that was not designed to do what you
> are trying to do is exponentially more than creating the simple
> mechanisms outside of the application, and giving the mechanisms
> secure access to the data within the application. An example: Media
> wiki was not originally designed to be a content recommendation engine
> that works with K-means clustering algorithm. So, if you design this
> functionality as a non-commercial service that lives outside of media
> wiki, and adapters that let it read from and write back to media wiki,
> the service is also available to potentially all other wiki engines as
> well, and the amount of work to make it compatible with Media Wiki
> software is far, far less than if the Media Wiki scripts themselves
> have to do the heavy lifting and processing of the new functionality.
> The external service need only be able to access data from media wiki
> (either via a RESTful service or directly from the database) and to
> write back to Media Wiki in a way that MW is expecting to see pages
> and content (when it is deemed necessary to programmatically write
> content to MW).


I hope, when you have time, you describe this point more clearly. There's
lots of unnecessary cognitive lifting involved. It sounds as if you've made
some monumental breakthroughs and now doing your best to describe the
practical applications the code sets intend in a short amount of time. Your
work sounds really exciting, Sam. I look forward to seeing you and Paul
describe how it works more clearly.

I'll present a demonstration story below; one I can better understand; that
you may want to consider applying in some way; and sooner than later; as the
p2p foundation becomes able to fund projects like yours.


> We believe an approach is needed that does not care what application
> you are using, what programming language it is in, nor even what your
> processes are (although knowing all of this helps), but only minimally
> requires that you output in some way that is a standard that can be
> mapped against. That output is where Paul and myself have created a
> standard, which is a way to abstract above the common existing
> barriers between web software applications. We have code that works
> with Wagn now, that will allow for this abstraction, and we'll have
> several demos for Nov.  We have even extended this to microcontrollers
> like Arduino, and will likely provide a demo of this, too.


FLOWS in action? Even with implementation of this protocol translator, there
will remain a great deal of work to do, but this will save a great deal of
work toward higher level functions and for great self sufficiency.


It would be good to know the exact processes of the meeting in Nov.
> Will this be presentation based? Or, some other format? Either way, we
> will be able to show some actual code demonstrations connecting wagn
> with other open source apps, services, etc. Plus, we're ready to talk
> about the underlying theory that drove us into this direction as
> developers.


Once we know our speaker/panel line-up we'll have a detailed outline of the
meeting. I'm doing my best to work with Phoebe and Michel to get the most
out of this one day event. Suggestions are most welcome. ;)


> Thanks, Nathan, Phoebe, and Michel for putting this together. A really
> needed meeting of minds in my opinion
>

Its about time as far as I'm concerned. And it looks as if the time is
right...

I really appreciate Phoebe and Michel for performing those particular
academic autocracies I lack tolerance in facing on my own. Phoebe is lifting
a majority of the autocratic weight, so we might want to thank her most of
all when giving appreciation for the workshop setting itself.

So Sam, get your story cap on and imagine how you might apply this
demonstration to your own work:

   - We're at a conference taking place inside an auditorium.
   - Everyone can see projected how you are accessing a graphical interface.
   - You go to a search page and type the name of the event you are
   attending.
   - A page for the event is accessed.
   - You find a 'dynamic' blueprint or map of the very room you are
   presenting from.
   - From this map you are able to see what objects you can access to
   manipulate in some way.
   - A mobile robotic arm in set upon a desk. A sheet of paper is nearby on
   the desk.
   - From the map you are able to locate the sheet of paper from your
   screen, select it, then use the cursor to fold it into a particular shape.
   This is a new design, never before virtually shaped in this way.
   - After confirming your entry, the robot arm, with that information,
   folds the paper to your specifications.
   - Demonstration complete.


When things of this sort become common and seamless, it is imperative that
we make theft obsolete! That cannot be stressed enough! It is for reasons
such as this I have described open manufacturing in a positive rather
than neutral manners: positive in the sense that it must also render
everything  'gratis' or free to have at no monetary cost, but also without
sacrificing lives, our own and the ecologies that sustain us.

After Smári's jaw dropping presentation of Industry 2.0, I hope achieving
such an aim does not seem so daunting.


Nathan




Sam wrote:

""
Nathan,

Is it ok to repost your email to via facebook to this list?

I have a couple of questions that will help me prepare for coming to
this conference
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/event.php?eid=63814529959&ref=ts :

1. What are the existing open source software platforms that are being
developed, or commonly used?  I am aware of
http://wiki.openkollab.com/Home (wagn) Media Wiki, GNU Mailman
listserv, WordPress, Drupal, and a few Prowiki and OddMuse wiki users
(Redmine is the basis of Open Pario for open source tech dev ). Any
others that I am missing there? Are people using Trac?

2. What are the commercial services being used among networks of
people interested in this discussion? I am aware of Google Groups,
Facebook, Twitter, Ning, identi.ca, Skype, FriendFeed? anything else?

3. most importantly, what are the existing open standards that are
usable among both open source platforms and commercial services? The
open source platforms are obviously potentially unlimited, so this
question is really about the commercial services.

4. Although, for open source frameworks and platforms, groupware,
applications, etc, We can look at how existing objects within
applications (like dates, identities, keywords, content objects, etc
etc) can be output in plural ways, under a diverse array of standard
output ways, to allow for wide re-use. This does not have to be done
by tedious extension of the native application. This is an overlooked
but extremely important design choice. The amount of effort that it
takes to extend an application that was not designed to do what you
are trying to do is exponentially more than creating the simple
mechanisms outside of the application, and giving the mechanisms
secure access to the data within the application. An example: Media
wiki was not originally designed to be a content recommendation engine
that works with K-means clustering algorithm. So, if you design this
functionality as a non-commercial service that lives outside of media
wiki, and adapters that let it read from and write back to media wiki,
the service is also available to potentially all other wiki engines as
well, and the amount of work to make it compatible with Media Wiki
software is far, far less than if the Media Wiki scripts themselves
have to do the heavy lifting and processing of the new functionality.
The external service need only be able to access data from media wiki
(either via a RESTful service or directly from the database) and to
write back to Media Wiki in a way that MW is expecting to see pages
and content (when it is deemed necessary to programmatically write
content to MW).

Number 4 above is a new approach to design, and extends to
collaboration platforms that are being used for open source hardware
collaborative development, too. Even most commercial services now do
this. (All of the above named work with some kind of standard save
Ning, see http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing/node/394 )

We believe an approach is needed that does not care what application
you are using, what programming language it is in, nor even what your
processes are (although knowing all of this helps), but only minimally
requires that you output in some way that is a standard that can be
mapped against. That output is where Paul and myself have created a
standard, which is a way to abstract above the common existing
barriers between web software applications. We have code that works
with Wagn now, that will allow for this abstraction, and we'll have
several demos for Nov.  We have even extended this to microcontrollers
like Arduino, and will likely provide a demo of this, too.

It would be good to know the exact processes of the meeting in Nov.
Will this be presentation based? Or, some other format? Either way, we
will be able to show some actual code demonstrations connecting wagn
with other open source apps, services, etc. Plus, we're ready to talk
about the underlying theory that drove us into this direction as
developers.

Thanks, Nathan, Phoebe, and Michel for putting this together. A really
needed meeting of minds in my opinion




--
--
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
http://socialsynergyweb.com
http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing
http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/
http://socialmediaclassroom.com
http://localfoodsystems.org
http://notanemployee.net
http://communitywiki.org

"The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
ambition." - Carl Sagan
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