[p2p-research] About the concept of holoptism etc.

Fri Aug 21 09:30:25 CEST 2009

David, the collaborative community essay is one of the best I've read in
years, and I do believe your post alerted me to it in the first place.

I'd recommend it to anyone on this list as a must-read,

Michel

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 12:28 AM, David Ronfeldt <ronfeldt at mac.com> wrote:

>
> MICHEL -- thanks for cc'ing me on this interesting material.  your
> recommendation about the adler and heckscher paper is excellent.  in case
> you didn't see it, i posted a long analysis here:
>
>
> http://twotheories.blogspot.com/2009/07/toward-collaborative-community-for.html
>
> while the paper you and i review relies on a trifold framework about
> organizational forms, they are now developing a newer, fourfold framework
> (clans, hierarchies, markets, collaborative communities).  it will lead to a
> better overlap between their framework and my TIMN, and make moot some of my
> comments toward the end of my post.
>
> BAS -- that's a very interesting blog you have.  i'm glad to know about it.
>  clay spinuzzi is also working on such matters, and i've sent the two of you
> a separate email to try to put you in contact about each other's blogs.
>
> JUHANA -- good questions.  if you want to read what we did, in the original
> work to field the concept of swarming (though mostly from a conflict
> perspective), take a look here:
>
>        http://www.rand.org/publications/DB/DB311  (Swarming, 2000)
>        http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1382  (Networks & Netwars,
> 2001)
>
> i've done nothing specific on swarming (or related concepts, like smart
> mobs and crowdsourcing) at my own blog so far, but swarming extends partly
> from the rise of network forms of organization, and that i have tried to
> keep writing up, notably here:
>
>
> http://twotheories.blogspot.com/2009/02/overview-of-social-evolution-past.html
>
> you refer to "control."  equally important over time in TIMN is the
> capacity for "decontrol."  i hope to post a clarification about this before
> long.
>
> i'm not up-to-date on the concept of holoptism, but it appears to resemble
> "sousveillance."  so many interesting concepts and trends!
>
> ALL -- i hope this helps.  again, thanks for including me.  onward.
>
> ===
>
>
> On Aug 19, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>
>  both avenues, ning or this list, are fine ...
>>
>> there is less traffic on ning though ...
>>
>> Michel
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Juhana Kokkonen <
>> juhana.kokkonen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Michel, Bas and all the others ;)
>>
>> this all sounds very fascinating and I must really put time on those
>> links and texts you mailed. All my earlier questions are still more
>> than relevant to me. Maybe it would be best for all, if I put some
>> kind of improved query to Ning-group, so I don't spam people who are
>> not so interested in my topics (?).
>>
>> So we will see there in the next few weeks (I'm writing my research in
>> Finnish so I must do some translations...)
>>
>> Yep,
>> Juhana
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 13:53, Bas Reus<bas.reus at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> > Interesting questions Juhana.
>> > I'm currently doing research about self-organization and online
>> > collaborative spaces (http://basreus.nl/).
>> > Roughly, my research question is "How to support self-organization in
>> > organizations, and how to imbed online collaborative spaces in those
>> > organizations to empower employees for self-organization?", and mention
>> > topics as stigmergy, swarm-intelligence, organizational forms,
>> autopoiesis
>> > and the like.
>> > Are your questions still relevant? If not, can you update them?
>> > Cheers,
>> > Bas Reus
>> > http://basreus.nl/
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Michel Bauwens <
>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Juhana,
>> >>
>> >> I found this old email to which I did not respond, sorry for that.
>> >>
>> >> Are you aware of the seminar that Athina is organizing with me in Hull,
>> >> where your topic would be most appropriate? see
>> >>
>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Virtual_Communication,_Collaboration_and_Conflict_Research_Group
>> >>
>> >> your questions below are a little too complex for a short answer, but
>> we
>> >> can always skype about it?
>> >>
>> >> This text would be a must read on the topic, see
>> >> http://p2pfoundation.net/Towards_Collaborative_Community
>> >>
>> >> and have you seen mark pesce's the tower and the cloud text?,
>> >>
>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/mark-pesce-how-the-power-of-the-cloud-affects-the-cloud-of-power/2009/05/16
>> >>
>> >> are you familiar with the integral AQAL framework, that I would use, if
>> I
>> >> had time, to respond to your query in detail ... in short; there are 4
>> >> levels subjective, intersubjective (culture), objective (technology),
>> >> interobjective (systems), where this conflict plays out
>> >>
>> >> are you familiar with bioteaming (ken thompson),
>> >> http://p2pfoundation.net/Bioteaming
>> >>
>> >> mark elliot's stigmergic collaboration,
>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Stigmergy
>> >>
>> >> I think that Tom Rawlings and Bas Reus, are either interested, or
>> working
>> >> on the topic.
>> >>
>> >> all the people mentioned above are in cc,
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps you could post this query at Ning,
>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/,
>> >> or on the p2p research list, where we could start a dialogue on it?
>> >>
>> >> I found the first reference to holoptism, in a report on collective
>> >> intelligence by jean-francois noubel, see
>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Holoptism
>> >>
>> >> Michel
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Juhana Kokkonen
>> >> <juhana.kokkonen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Michel,
>> >>> it was a honour to meet you yesterday in Medialab Helsinki. I was the
>> guy
>> >>> who asked the origin of the concept of the "holoptism" and I thought
>> that it
>> >>> would be easier to ask the writer and the book/article by email. So
>> who was
>> >>> it and what was the text? ;)
>> >>> ***
>> >>> Unfortunately the meeting was so short that I didn't get the chance to
>> >>> answer you about the swarm-like structures vs. strong (normal) social
>> >>> networks. So if you have some day time to discuss about this subject
>> with
>> >>> me, I would be very pleased.
>> >>> So: of course I don't expect that normal connections or social
>> relations
>> >>> vanishes > the idea is more like that there will be one layer more in
>> >>> collaboration and/or communication. I see the concept of swarm-like
>> >>> structures a new way to find interesting people to collaborate and a
>> light
>> >>> way to make border crossing between different institutions and social
>> >>> networks.
>> >>> I also started to think after meeting you the conflict between
>> >>> "traditional organizations" and "transparent swarms" (or holoptic
>> activity
>> >>> or something like that). I see this as a essential problem in my
>> >>> organizational change process.
>> >>>   - What are the causes for this conflict from your viewpoint?
>> >>>   - And do you see, what kind of actions could solve this conflict?
>> >>> Is conflict between control and drifting? Power? Habits? Mental
>> models?
>> >>> Ok, there is too much questions, but I appreciate if you can give some
>> kind
>> >>> of opinion from your point of view ;)
>> >>> Yours,
>> >>> Juhana Kokkonen
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>> Research:
>> >> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html - Think thank:
>> >> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>> >>
>> >> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>> >>
>> >> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> >> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>> >>
>> >> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> >> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Research:
>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html - Think thank:
>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

-- 
Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Research:
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html - Think thank:
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

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