[p2p-research] The Change Economy

Tue Apr 28 23:08:12 CEST 2009

It will slip thru your fingers sooner or later, so it's all the same, to me
at least. The job of the writer-scientist-philosopher, IMO, is to inspire
you to enter a higher state of awareness, not give you the details that you
and I know will be proven wrong in 100 years or tomorrow.

Sam: still processing... had a long night.

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I was going to recommend Stuart Kauffman too, but I always found his
> writings less informative than the idea of his writings...sort of the
> opposite of how I feel about Clay Shirky who seems to say the obvious but
> does it with infinite insight and subtlety while yet not being arcane.
> Kauffman is not clear...at least to me.  It is almost like reading a
> phenomenologist.  You think you are getting something but then it keeps
> slipping through your fingers.
>
>
> Ryan Lanham
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Sorry, marc, I am on a roll, so one more email:
>>
>> To give a working example:
>>
>> Think about the problem of "information overload". So long as we are
>> trying to "control" the flow and rate of information coming at us, and
>> leaving us, we are struggling to keep up (the "Red Queen" in Kauffman's
>> book)
>>
>> The nature of information in the internet can now be compared to the
>> nature of the world's oceans. Right now, the way that many of us work with
>> information is like building a dam, or canals, or dikes, to attempt to
>> control the ocean of information.
>>
>> Yet, what if instead we figured out how to create systems that can
>> symbiotically pull from and simultaneously feed back into the massive
>> network? We could make information systems that work more like a fan tube
>> worm, or a coral reef, that can exist within the ocean of information, and
>> provide multitudes of niches for existing and new species? We create systems
>> that take advantage of certain elements inherent in the ocean of
>> information, which in turn open up many more new ways to build from that
>> starting point.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> PS. this perspective came to me by way of Stanley Salthe,
>>> http://www.nbi.dk/~natphil/salthe/<http://www.nbi.dk/%7Enatphil/salthe/>
>>> Salthe's emphasis on the "traidic" nature of existence came in turn from
>>> http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~sji/ <http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/%7Esji/>Sung Chul Ji, who derived concepts from Charles S Peirce's semiotics.
>>>
>>> The core idea is founded in changing the way the we understand, and the
>>> way that we understand how others understand, and the nature of all
>>> information in the universe itself, and how that can inform how we operate
>>> within it.
>>>
>>> http://biosemiosis.blogspot.com/2008/07/macro-vs-microsemiosis.html
>>>
>>> To survive and thrive, human systems *need* a not just a network view,
>>> but a multi-dimensional, multi-scaled view and definition of systems. this
>>> will help us see how many, many people can operate and multiply many forms
>>> of wealth within systems that previously seemed easily depletable. Peer
>>> networks are vital to creating the multi-dimensional maps and models and
>>> views that will allow all of us to see the cornacopia of options that now
>>> exist, provided we can shift out focus from exploitation and control, to
>>> existential symbiosis with everything that is around us, on as many scales
>>> as possible
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> One of the things about the network economy is that it's total value is
>>>> irrelevant to participants, who realize that the system they participate in
>>>> is constantly changing, and that there is no way to get an accurate picture.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The perspective of the size of the economy is mostly important when
>>>> making arguments for people who see everything as resources to be exploited,
>>>> and capitalized upon, instead of cultivation.
>>>>
>>>> The real answer is that the value of *network economies* is potentially
>>>> only limited by the abilties, agility, and symbiotic efficiency of the
>>>> people and entities that make up the network. Their is a potential to
>>>> sustainably scale up and down, in scales of complexity. Now, we mostly
>>>> operate within one scale of complexity. (see
>>>> http://www.isss.org/hierarchy.htm Hierachy Theory)  But, the liberated
>>>> and exploratory nature of networked economies also means that we can
>>>> potentially operate on all scales, which are ultimately theoretically
>>>> infinite. How do you measure the value of that? Most economists will scoff
>>>> at that notion. Yet, in our lifetimes, I think the above realization will
>>>> end up being a human evolutionary milestone.
>>>>
>>>> And, I do believe that you have benevolent motivations, so no worries
>>>> from here on that! :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:35 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> AHITU is a great book.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm asking because it seems for the first time "change" (and more
>>>>> specifically, and as you say, 'network enabled change') is maturing into a
>>>>> full fledged economy and I'm personally interested in figuring out the size
>>>>> of the change economy.... no business motivation, just my own curiosity.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:11 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are actually some rather old models on this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you start with Stuart Kauffman
>>>>>> http://www.citeulike.org/user/VRadenovic/article/158503 At Home in
>>>>>> the Universe, you'll get some background on the network and system dynamics
>>>>>> related to this type of change. On a systems scale, the lower cost of
>>>>>> creating and using "open source" coupled with the fact that these projects
>>>>>> are often coupled to networks, tends to increase wealth generation, and the
>>>>>> divergent filling of niches possible with cores that are optimized for
>>>>>> flexible customization and re-use, tends to open up more niches to be
>>>>>> filled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know about the numbers in dollars. We (our network) could fill
>>>>>> a role in taking the lead on research like this. There may be some useful
>>>>>> info at http://www.longtail.com/the_long_tail/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 8:37 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm wondering if anyone out there has a good view of all the economic
>>>>>>> activity that is related to "change"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, the number of companies that are open sourcing their
>>>>>>> proprietary software or processes, and what that is creating in terms of
>>>>>>> economic activity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another example, the number of universities that are open sourcing
>>>>>>> their courses (like MIT, Stanford) and those implementing 'holistic
>>>>>>> education', what that is creating in terms of economic activity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder if someone has the time to give us a good description of the
>>>>>>> change economy and it's size (e.g. total spending on change in dollars.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marc Fawzi
>>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>>>>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>>>>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>>>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sam Rose
>>>>>> Social Synergy
>>>>>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>>>>>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>>>>>> AIM: Str9960
>>>>>> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
>>>>>> skype: samuelrose
>>>>>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>>>>>> http://socialsynergyweb.org/network
>>>>>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>>>>>> http://localfoodsystems.org
>>>>>> http://openfarmtech.org
>>>>>> http://notanemployee.net
>>>>>> http://communitywiki.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Long ago, we brought you all this fire.
>>>>>> Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://notanemployee.net/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Fawzi
>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sam Rose
>>>> Social Synergy
>>>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>>>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>>>> AIM: Str9960
>>>> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
>>>> skype: samuelrose
>>>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>>>> http://socialsynergyweb.org/network
>>>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>>>> http://localfoodsystems.org
>>>> http://openfarmtech.org
>>>> http://notanemployee.net
>>>> http://communitywiki.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Long ago, we brought you all this fire.
>>>> Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."
>>>>
>>>> http://notanemployee.net/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sam Rose
>>> Social Synergy
>>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>>> AIM: Str9960
>>> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
>>> skype: samuelrose
>>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>>> http://socialsynergyweb.org/network
>>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>>> http://localfoodsystems.org
>>> http://openfarmtech.org
>>> http://notanemployee.net
>>> http://communitywiki.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Long ago, we brought you all this fire.
>>> Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."
>>>
>>> http://notanemployee.net/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sam Rose
>> Social Synergy
>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>> AIM: Str9960
>> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
>> skype: samuelrose
>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>> http://socialsynergyweb.org/network
>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>> http://localfoodsystems.org
>> http://openfarmtech.org
>> http://notanemployee.net
>> http://communitywiki.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Long ago, we brought you all this fire.
>> Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."
>>
>> http://notanemployee.net/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> p2presearch mailing list
>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>>
>

-- 

Marc Fawzi
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
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