[p2p-research] The Change Economy

Tue Apr 28 20:35:51 CEST 2009

I was going to recommend Stuart Kauffman too, but I always found his
writings less informative than the idea of his writings...sort of the
opposite of how I feel about Clay Shirky who seems to say the obvious but
does it with infinite insight and subtlety while yet not being arcane.
Kauffman is not clear...at least to me.  It is almost like reading a
phenomenologist.  You think you are getting something but then it keeps
slipping through your fingers.

Ryan Lanham

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry, marc, I am on a roll, so one more email:
>
> To give a working example:
>
> Think about the problem of "information overload". So long as we are trying
> to "control" the flow and rate of information coming at us, and leaving us,
> we are struggling to keep up (the "Red Queen" in Kauffman's book)
>
> The nature of information in the internet can now be compared to the nature
> of the world's oceans. Right now, the way that many of us work with
> information is like building a dam, or canals, or dikes, to attempt to
> control the ocean of information.
>
> Yet, what if instead we figured out how to create systems that can
> symbiotically pull from and simultaneously feed back into the massive
> network? We could make information systems that work more like a fan tube
> worm, or a coral reef, that can exist within the ocean of information, and
> provide multitudes of niches for existing and new species? We create systems
> that take advantage of certain elements inherent in the ocean of
> information, which in turn open up many more new ways to build from that
> starting point.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> PS. this perspective came to me by way of Stanley Salthe,
>> http://www.nbi.dk/~natphil/salthe/  Salthe's emphasis on the "traidic"
>> nature of existence came in turn from http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~sji/Sung Chul Ji, who derived concepts from Charles S Peirce's semiotics.
>>
>> The core idea is founded in changing the way the we understand, and the
>> way that we understand how others understand, and the nature of all
>> information in the universe itself, and how that can inform how we operate
>> within it.
>>
>> http://biosemiosis.blogspot.com/2008/07/macro-vs-microsemiosis.html
>>
>> To survive and thrive, human systems *need* a not just a network view, but
>> a multi-dimensional, multi-scaled view and definition of systems. this will
>> help us see how many, many people can operate and multiply many forms of
>> wealth within systems that previously seemed easily depletable. Peer
>> networks are vital to creating the multi-dimensional maps and models and
>> views that will allow all of us to see the cornacopia of options that now
>> exist, provided we can shift out focus from exploitation and control, to
>> existential symbiosis with everything that is around us, on as many scales
>> as possible
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> One of the things about the network economy is that it's total value is
>>> irrelevant to participants, who realize that the system they participate in
>>> is constantly changing, and that there is no way to get an accurate picture.
>>>
>>>
>>> The perspective of the size of the economy is mostly important when
>>> making arguments for people who see everything as resources to be exploited,
>>> and capitalized upon, instead of cultivation.
>>>
>>> The real answer is that the value of *network economies* is potentially
>>> only limited by the abilties, agility, and symbiotic efficiency of the
>>> people and entities that make up the network. Their is a potential to
>>> sustainably scale up and down, in scales of complexity. Now, we mostly
>>> operate within one scale of complexity. (see
>>> http://www.isss.org/hierarchy.htm Hierachy Theory)  But, the liberated
>>> and exploratory nature of networked economies also means that we can
>>> potentially operate on all scales, which are ultimately theoretically
>>> infinite. How do you measure the value of that? Most economists will scoff
>>> at that notion. Yet, in our lifetimes, I think the above realization will
>>> end up being a human evolutionary milestone.
>>>
>>> And, I do believe that you have benevolent motivations, so no worries
>>> from here on that! :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:35 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> AHITU is a great book.
>>>>
>>>> I'm asking because it seems for the first time "change" (and more
>>>> specifically, and as you say, 'network enabled change') is maturing into a
>>>> full fledged economy and I'm personally interested in figuring out the size
>>>> of the change economy.... no business motivation, just my own curiosity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:11 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Marc,
>>>>>
>>>>> There are actually some rather old models on this.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you start with Stuart Kauffman
>>>>> http://www.citeulike.org/user/VRadenovic/article/158503 At Home in the
>>>>> Universe, you'll get some background on the network and system dynamics
>>>>> related to this type of change. On a systems scale, the lower cost of
>>>>> creating and using "open source" coupled with the fact that these projects
>>>>> are often coupled to networks, tends to increase wealth generation, and the
>>>>> divergent filling of niches possible with cores that are optimized for
>>>>> flexible customization and re-use, tends to open up more niches to be
>>>>> filled.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know about the numbers in dollars. We (our network) could fill
>>>>> a role in taking the lead on research like this. There may be some useful
>>>>> info at http://www.longtail.com/the_long_tail/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 8:37 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm wondering if anyone out there has a good view of all the economic
>>>>>> activity that is related to "change"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, the number of companies that are open sourcing their
>>>>>> proprietary software or processes, and what that is creating in terms of
>>>>>> economic activity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another example, the number of universities that are open sourcing
>>>>>> their courses (like MIT, Stanford) and those implementing 'holistic
>>>>>> education', what that is creating in terms of economic activity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if someone has the time to give us a good description of the
>>>>>> change economy and it's size (e.g. total spending on change in dollars.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Fawzi
>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>>>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>>>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sam Rose
>>>>> Social Synergy
>>>>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>>>>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>>>>> AIM: Str9960
>>>>> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
>>>>> skype: samuelrose
>>>>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>>>>> http://socialsynergyweb.org/network
>>>>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>>>>> http://localfoodsystems.org
>>>>> http://openfarmtech.org
>>>>> http://notanemployee.net
>>>>> http://communitywiki.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Long ago, we brought you all this fire.
>>>>> Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."
>>>>>
>>>>> http://notanemployee.net/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Marc Fawzi
>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sam Rose
>>> Social Synergy
>>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>>> AIM: Str9960
>>> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
>>> skype: samuelrose
>>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>>> http://socialsynergyweb.org/network
>>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>>> http://localfoodsystems.org
>>> http://openfarmtech.org
>>> http://notanemployee.net
>>> http://communitywiki.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Long ago, we brought you all this fire.
>>> Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."
>>>
>>> http://notanemployee.net/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sam Rose
>> Social Synergy
>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>> AIM: Str9960
>> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
>> skype: samuelrose
>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>> http://socialsynergyweb.org/network
>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>> http://localfoodsystems.org
>> http://openfarmtech.org
>> http://notanemployee.net
>> http://communitywiki.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Long ago, we brought you all this fire.
>> Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."
>>
>> http://notanemployee.net/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sam Rose
> Social Synergy
> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> AIM: Str9960
> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> skype: samuelrose
> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> http://socialsynergyweb.org/network
> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
> http://localfoodsystems.org
> http://openfarmtech.org
> http://notanemployee.net
> http://communitywiki.org
>
>
>
>
> "Long ago, we brought you all this fire.
> Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."
>
> http://notanemployee.net/
>
> _______________________________________________
> p2presearch mailing list
> p2presearch at listcultures.org
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
>
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