[p2p-research] Was Re: P2P Medicine -- Making Your Smart Phone / Now P2P and Futurism

[Michel Bauwens]

to identify one's own self with the promise of our technology, is a very
dangerous moral conceit, and we can see it everywhere,

for example, how Wilberian and SD people all think they are
yellow/turquoise, and that people they disagree with, must be poor deluded
greens, or how transhumanist immortalist share their wary heads at us
deathist ... as if immortality were already a fact, not an unlikely promise

Michel

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 8:46 AM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:

> I mean we already have a "tarns-humanist ideology" without any signs of a
> trans-humanists. People putting RFID tags under their skins does not make
> them trans-human. People planting dumb cameras in their eye socket does not
> make them trans-human.
>
> A vision can exist for sure, and is part of human nature, but for some
> people I have met on Open Manufacturing and elsewhere they pretend that they
> are trans-human already and they abide by some ideology that they ascribe to
> trans-humans even when they're still bearded kids sitting in some dorm or
> their mom's basement.
>
> Ok, done venting. :-)
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 6:37 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think Michel is referring to the ideology in a vacuum, i.e. in the
>> absence of anything real.
>>
>> You can have a vision in the absence of something real to substantiate it
>> and that is called futuring or visioning and it's part of human nature.
>>
>> But you cannot have an ideology in the absence of something real to
>> substantiate it.
>>
>> So the issue, IMO, is vision vs ideology.
>>
>> Ideology that is there before there is any supporting reality is delusion.
>>
>>
>> Vision is different, as it foreshadows what is to come and does not
>> pretend that it is already here.
>>
>> Marc
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Michel Bauwens <
>>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sam,
>>>>
>>>> as you perhaps know, I studied for a number of years the implications of
>>>> the  transhuman promises, when making TechnoCalyps,
>>>>
>>>> my problems are:
>>>>
>>>> 1) people like kurzweil and other superlatives go seemlessly, and
>>>> unwarrantedly, from actual research, to the promise of the research, to
>>>> imagining that everything is done already
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if the follow-on from your position, Michel, is that evangelism
>>> and futurism are inconsistent with P2P systems, which are more focused on
>>> deployment and solutions?
>>>
>>> I find the distinction of p2p to be its moral tones.  Its pervasive
>>> political economic view is trust and responsibility--much more than any
>>> brand of socialism or libertarianism, for example, I am aware of.
>>>
>>> It may be those ethical traits which remove it from evangelism and,
>>> especially, futurism.  Futurism must be speculative, rhetorical and
>>> visioning.  Perhaps the risks associated with those veins makes futurism
>>> inconsistent with p2p's moral/ethical tone.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Marc Fawzi
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Marc Fawzi
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>



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