[p2p-research] policy sprints

Thu Apr 23 20:01:39 CEST 2009

Hi Michel,

I agree it's blogworthy, but am still wrapping my head around what it is.  I
will produce a blog post after the workshop.

Matt

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 2:23 AM, <p2presearch-request at listcultures.org>wrote:

> Send p2presearch mailing list submissions to
>        p2presearch at listcultures.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        p2presearch-request at listcultures.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        p2presearch-owner at listcultures.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of p2presearch digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. policy sprints (Michel Bauwens)
>   2. Re: Where is P2P in the Pirate Bay,       was: Pirate Bay
>      Conviction Analysis from NETTIME list... (M. Fioretti)
>   3. Important: announcing your actions and lectures via       Ning and
>      the P2P Foundation facebook page (Michel Bauwens)
>   4. Re: simpler way wiki (Kevin Carson)
>   5. Re: Resilience and scale invariance (Stan Rhodes)
>   6. Re: Where is P2P in the Pirate Bay,       was: Pirate Bay
>      Conviction Analysis from NETTIME list... (M. Fioretti)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 11:42:56 +0700
> From: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [p2p-research] policy sprints
> To: Matt Cooperrider <mattcooperrider at gmail.com>,       Mark Elliott
>        <me at mark-elliott.net>,  Peer-To-Peer Research List
>        <p2presearch at listcultures.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <c776300b0904212142o1559fc89p44826d03f56925a9 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Matt and Mark,
>
> this here, http://www.meetup.com/opengovnyc/calendar/10234024/, mentions
> policy sprints, which I think is an innovative concept and practice which
> deserves more coverage by itself,
>
> would it possible to write up something about it, for publication in our
> p2p
> blog?
>
> many thanks for considering it,
>
> Michel
>
> On Tuesday, Dr. Elliott will give a brief presentation of his work, and
> then
> will facilitate a workshop on collaborative policy building. Our group has
> discussed hosting a "policy sprint" at previous meetings. In short, the
> goal
> is to build a process for using citizen expertise to develop better policy.
> A "policy sprint" is an attempt to complete a policy proposal in a short
> period of time (more explanation
> here<http://iyear.us/2009/04/08/open-government-nyc-meetup-gaining-steam/
> >).
> The focus of Tuesday's meeting will be to develop a process and a toolset
> for future policy sprints, such as the event that we are planning for late
> Spring.
> So wear your wonk hat, and come prepared with specific policy ideas that
> you'd like to explore. We need to take this policy sprint concept for a
> test
> drive.
>
> --
> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>
> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>
> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> http://www.shiftn.com/
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20090422/5fdcca37/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 06:46:51 +0200
> From: "M. Fioretti" <mfioretti at nexaima.net>
> Subject: Re: [p2p-research] Where is P2P in the Pirate Bay,     was:
>        Pirate Bay      Conviction Analysis from NETTIME list...
> To: p2presearch at listcultures.org
> Message-ID: <20090422044651.GC3252 at nexaima.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 05:08:39 AM +0100, Andy Robinson wrote:
> > Point taken, BUT...
> >
> > The p2p nature of the technology infrastructure is crucial to the
> > resilience to repression, and also, isn't the development of
> > technologies in this area usually p2p among designers as well?
>
> Even if it were, it doesn't change the issue: "p2p-ness" at the mere
> technical, transmission level has nothing to do with the philosophy.
> If people use software built around technically p2p routing algorithms
> it doesn't mean at all that they know or are embracing P2P in the
> cultural/philosophical sense
>
> > I wonder how passive the use is; I actually doubt that: "99.99% of
> > the people... never remix or make any derivative work of what they
> > put into, or get from those networks."
>
> I admit that I have not considered "really" home made videos, that is
> videos made for pure home use: but I feel that adding the "Rocky"
> soundtrack to one's holiday or wedding video, which will only be seen
> by relatives and close friends, wouldn't count as "distribution" and
> should be left out of this discourse.
>
> I wasn't even thinking of YouTube, that's indeed something for
> "producers", ie active people. I refer to Pirate Bay and similar,
> which I understand to be much bigger than Youtube (when it comes to
> non-self produced content, at least)
>
> Another thing which proves my point is the protocol itself. Pirate Bay
> is popular because it distributes torrents. Torrents make sense only
> when there are many people who want the same new thing in the same
> moment. Try to download any 2008 Linux distribution (something which
> whoever wanted it, already got months ago) with a torrent: it's much
> slower than FTP. So Pirate Bay or any other torrent network being
> popular is a proof that purely passive consumption is the overwhelming
> rule, ie that they are not P2P in the "p2p foundation" sense.
>
>
> > Something following from the Filipino argument - I thought it was very
> > interesting to see this issue put in a North-South perspective.
>
> Then you may want to read this:
>
> http://mfioretti.com/tragedy-creative-commons
>
> which may bring in another, indirect proof of my thesis. When I wrote
> that article, I noticed a very strong fracture. I asked "what do you
> think of CC" to many people worldwide, more than mentioned in the
> article. Some answer were positive, other negative, but one thing was
> constant. Almost 100% of the people from "first world" spoke mostly
> about multimedia, audio/video mashup, unrestrained creativity and all
> these cool things that (relatively) rich people have the possibility
> and inclination to care about.
>
> All people from developing countries only spoke about education. They
> wouldn't even bother to think or explain why music, for example,
> should be CC, they talked of (mixing) textbooks, scientific papers and
> so on.
>
> If Pirate Bay and friends mostly contained this second kind of stuff,
> then it would make sense to call them "P2P" as in "active producers
> and promoters of free as in freedom culture". Their "top 100" list is
> a proof that, whatever they do, they either are purely passive
> consumers or, as you say, people looking for a cool soundtrack of
> their basically private videos, so they shouldn't be called in the
> same way.
>
> Marco
>
> --
> Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how
> software is used *around* you:            http://digifreedom.net/node/84
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 12:07:42 +0700
> From: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [p2p-research] Important: announcing your actions and
>        lectures via    Ning and the P2P Foundation facebook page
> To: Peer-To-Peer Research List <p2presearch at listcultures.org>
> Cc: Mark Elliott <me at mark-elliott.net>, "M. Fioretti"
>        <marco.fioretti at eleutheros.it>, Matt Cooperrider
>        <mattcooperrider at gmail.com>
> Message-ID:
>        <c776300b0904212207y2651199dl75a73cdb9499e5f8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dear friends,
>
> More and more, people who are following our p2p community are also being
> active as public speakers and starting all kind of initiatives,
>
> PLEASE, do make it a habit of letting us know when and where you'll be
> speaking and sharing your work.
>
> I recommend using our Ning forum, using a blogpost, and our newly created
> Facebook group, for anything that is event oriented.
>
> The regular blog is recommended for explaining longer term intiatives and
> conceptual work,
>
> Michel
>
> --
> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>
> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>
> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> http://www.shiftn.com/
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20090422/34ac06ae/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:44:44 -0700
> From: Kevin Carson <free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [p2p-research] simpler way wiki
> To: p2presearch at listcultures.org
> Message-ID:
>        <dcb5c5e50904212244g715f5f0cq4047576966027d1 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 4/19/09, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > great Kevin, in the blog on the 26th
>
> Thanks, Michel.
>
> --
> Kevin Carson
> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
> Mutualist Blog:  Free Market Anti-Capitalism
> http://mutualist.blogspot.com
> Studies in Mutualist Political Economy
> http://www.mutualist.org/id47.html
> Organization Theory:  A Libertarian Perspective
> http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 23:15:38 -0700
> From: Stan Rhodes <stanleyrhodes at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [p2p-research] Resilience and scale invariance
> To: marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
> Cc: Peer-To-Peer Research List <p2presearch at listcultures.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <bb93143c0904212315h28931b40o1c667f410eb529c0 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Not so hard to be both.
>
> The word "relationship" carries with it some meaning that I'd rather
> not imply.  All the biases and heuristics we use when making economics
> decisions (including those with money) create a map of irrationality
> that is very predictable (thus Dan Ariely's choice in title) in spots,
> but does not lend itself to a grand theory.  These errors are also
> incredibly hard to avoid, whether you expect them or not.  It's a bit
> like an optical illusion: you know it's not real, but your brain can't
> stop perceiving it as real.  We're hard-wired to make the same sorts
> of mistakes, over and over.  For the most part, we have almost no
> chance of "learning better" to prevent ourselves from making them.  I
> do not think this is not a hopeless statement, but a realistic one.
> We CAN develop methods, systems, and traditions that give more
> immediate feedback, and lessen the impact of the mistakes we will
> make.  Another bias is that when we learn about biases we usually
> think we're less susceptible in the future, and are more confident we
> won't make that mistake.  Ironic, eh?
>
> Really, reviewing the literature is better (and easier for me!) than
> me writing much about it.  A PhD student in London actually has a
> "psychology of money" section of his psyblog that has a good
> not-overly-technical overview of many of the biases we have, and
> summarizes a number of studies (mostly experiments) in behavioral
> economics: http://www.spring.org.uk/2008/04/psychology-of-money.php
>
> The studies do not create a unified whole.  No model or theory exists
> that explains it all, nor do I think there will ever be one.  For
> example, expected utility theory had many holes, and in came prospect
> theory, and it too has many holes, and so we tweak an assumption here
> and there, test, and repeat.  It is closer to the mapping of terrain
> than it is to finding a golden algorithm hidden in a black box.
>
> Other avenues of research contain valuable insight, too: trust,
> intuition, well-being, motivation, and so on.  Each can support or
> undermine an assumption in the other, and in our thinking about how
> socioeconomics works.
>
> Also: I accidentally wrote "risk aversion" in the previous email when
> I meant "loss aversion."  Sorry.
>
> -- Stan
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 4:21 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I thought you were an economist :)
> >
> > Can you please elaborate further on the relationship people have to
> money,
> > from a psychological point of view?
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:22:55 +0200
> From: "M. Fioretti" <mfioretti at nexaima.net>
> Subject: Re: [p2p-research] Where is P2P in the Pirate Bay,     was:
>        Pirate Bay      Conviction Analysis from NETTIME list...
> To: p2presearch at listcultures.org
> Message-ID: <20090422062255.GE3252 at nexaima.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:39:40 AM +0700, Michel Bauwens wrote:
> > In countries in the South, including Thailand,
> >
> > if music, movies, educational textbooks, software, etc.. where not
> > available through filesharing or through commercial piracy for that
> > matter, that would mean that the majority of the population here,
> > say 70% would not have any access to it
>
> I have already mentioned in my answer to Andy that necessary/
> inevitable piracy (textbooks) and the general attitude in Asia is a
> different thing in principle, and is not the bulk of what happens on
> Pirate Bay anyway. Incidentally, by definition the bulk of those
> downloads is from (relatively) rich people, that is those who can
> afford broadband. You don't participate in any meaningful way to p2p
> torrents with a 56K dial-up connection.
>
> > Defending the Pirate Bay, and the sharing practices of youth
> > worldwide, and attacking and critiquing the rent-monopolists, seem
> > more sensible to me , than attacking the filesharing youth, because
> > they're motives, i.e using and sharing culture without pay-back, are
> > not 'pure'.
>
> I have different opinions on this, but I won't answer (not here and
> now, at least, maybe in a different thread) because I would really
> like to keep this thread focused on my original observation: this is
> not about judging or attacking at all, is only about calling things
> with their actual name.
>
> What I am saying right now is that I find (at least) pretty misleading
> to dump together in one pot what you/we preach as P2P with "taking
> stuff because we finally can do it for free", even if the latter is
> good, harmless, innovative and what not.
>
> Besides being intrinsically misleading, it's also uneffective/
> counterproductive as a communication strategy, at least outside
> academia and circles of people who alrady are activists. If you go to
> a generic parent's association meeting and send the message that
> what's happening at Pirate Bay is innovative philosophy... to parents
> who know VERY well that their OWN kids have no interest in anything
> but watching O.C and downloading music to their iPods, you'll probably
> fail to reach them.
>
> Marco
>
> --
> Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how
> software is used *around* you:            http://digifreedom.net/node/84
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> p2presearch mailing list
> p2presearch at listcultures.org
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
>
> End of p2presearch Digest, Vol 18, Issue 128
> ********************************************
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20090423/77c285c4/attachment-0001.html>