[p2p-research] Where is P2P in the Pirate Bay, was: Pirate Bay Conviction Analysis from NETTIME list...

[Michel Bauwens]

All people from developing countries only spoke about education. They
wouldn't even bother to think or explain why music, for example,
should be CC, they talked of (mixing) textbooks, scientific papers and
so on.

Hi Marco,

about the above paragraph, I think this is a bias of speaking with activist
people. Most people here are, perhaps like in the West, but my impression is
'even more so', entertainment oriented, so music and movies are of a
paramount concern to them, which is why piracy, especially commercial
piracy, is the way of life here,

Michel

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 11:46 AM, M. Fioretti <mfioretti at nexaima.net> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 05:08:39 AM +0100, Andy Robinson wrote:
> > Point taken, BUT...
> >
> > The p2p nature of the technology infrastructure is crucial to the
> > resilience to repression, and also, isn't the development of
> > technologies in this area usually p2p among designers as well?
>
> Even if it were, it doesn't change the issue: "p2p-ness" at the mere
> technical, transmission level has nothing to do with the philosophy.
> If people use software built around technically p2p routing algorithms
> it doesn't mean at all that they know or are embracing P2P in the
> cultural/philosophical sense
>
> > I wonder how passive the use is; I actually doubt that: "99.99% of
> > the people... never remix or make any derivative work of what they
> > put into, or get from those networks."
>
> I admit that I have not considered "really" home made videos, that is
> videos made for pure home use: but I feel that adding the "Rocky"
> soundtrack to one's holiday or wedding video, which will only be seen
> by relatives and close friends, wouldn't count as "distribution" and
> should be left out of this discourse.
>
> I wasn't even thinking of YouTube, that's indeed something for
> "producers", ie active people. I refer to Pirate Bay and similar,
> which I understand to be much bigger than Youtube (when it comes to
> non-self produced content, at least)
>
> Another thing which proves my point is the protocol itself. Pirate Bay
> is popular because it distributes torrents. Torrents make sense only
> when there are many people who want the same new thing in the same
> moment. Try to download any 2008 Linux distribution (something which
> whoever wanted it, already got months ago) with a torrent: it's much
> slower than FTP. So Pirate Bay or any other torrent network being
> popular is a proof that purely passive consumption is the overwhelming
> rule, ie that they are not P2P in the "p2p foundation" sense.
>
>
> > Something following from the Filipino argument - I thought it was very
> > interesting to see this issue put in a North-South perspective.
>
> Then you may want to read this:
>
> http://mfioretti.com/tragedy-creative-commons
>
> which may bring in another, indirect proof of my thesis. When I wrote
> that article, I noticed a very strong fracture. I asked "what do you
> think of CC" to many people worldwide, more than mentioned in the
> article. Some answer were positive, other negative, but one thing was
> constant. Almost 100% of the people from "first world" spoke mostly
> about multimedia, audio/video mashup, unrestrained creativity and all
> these cool things that (relatively) rich people have the possibility
> and inclination to care about.
>
> All people from developing countries only spoke about education. They
> wouldn't even bother to think or explain why music, for example,
> should be CC, they talked of (mixing) textbooks, scientific papers and
> so on.
>
> If Pirate Bay and friends mostly contained this second kind of stuff,
> then it would make sense to call them "P2P" as in "active producers
> and promoters of free as in freedom culture". Their "top 100" list is
> a proof that, whatever they do, they either are purely passive
> consumers or, as you say, people looking for a cool soundtrack of
> their basically private videos, so they shouldn't be called in the
> same way.
>
> Marco
>
> --
> Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how
> software is used *around* you:            http://digifreedom.net/node/84
>
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>



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