[p2p-research] [p2pf] Launch of P2P Research Group
Samuel Rose
samuel.rose at gmail.com
Mon Apr 20 15:53:31 CEST 2009
One of the problems here in the US is that public funding has largely dried
up for Universities, and so most of them have turned to larger corporations
for money. Related to this, some of them have also turned to being in the
"business" of securing grants (and often not doing much with the grants
other than absorbing them, and pressuring PI's to seek more grants instead
of allowing grantees to work to make those that grantees have already
received achieve their stated goals).
In the US, Universities are top-heavy when it comes to maximizing money.
They became very used to public subsidies, and grants, and created a rather
insatiable appetite for money. So, once that money stream has dried up, many
of them turned to restructuring themselves as businesses in order to just
sustain programs, building projects, etc. Perhaps it is the same in EU and
UK? I don't have direct experience, and so do not know for sure.
I think that given the larger environment, that it will be practically
impossible for many Universities in the US to avoid restructuring themselves
as businesses.
So, the question them becomes: what *kind* of "business" should a University
be?
There is a legitimate business model, that I call a "commons-based" business
model. This model is probably the best fit for Universities. Give it away,
making money. Steve Bosserman writes about it here:
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/steve_bosserman/2008/02/09/giving_it_away_making_money.htm
I agree with Andreas that Universities should stay away from more
traditional business. Stay away from making their staff and students
available as low cost research outsource grunts. Basically, stay away from
seeing people and land as natural resources and labor to be capitalized
upon.
The cost of restructuring to take commons based business route is far less
than than the cost of scarcity based business , and commons based businesses
run with principles discussed by Elinor Ostrum in Governing the Commons
(design principles discussion) will outperform and outsustain scarcity based
businesses.
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Wittel, Andreas
<andreas.wittel at ntu.ac.uk>wrote:
> Hi Ryan,
>
> not sure if I understand your question. If you do think that universities
> should not be businesses (as I do) why think about examples in history that
> show a successful transformation from non-business to business models? Are
> you indicating with your question that this change of unis to corporations
> will ultimately fail?
>
> The primary function of universities in one sentence? Perhaps to contribute
> to the production and dissemination of knowledge? Obviously there are other
> players emerging doing the same thing, collective intelligence etc. So there
> is competition, whcih has to be a good thing.
>
> I really dont think that p2p will wash away capitalism and all institutions
> associated with it. I'd rather think of this in terms of mergers. Any idea
> what universities would look like if they would go p2p instead of business?
>
> Andreas
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Ryan Lanham [mailto:rlanham1963 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Mon 20/04/2009 03:00
> To: Wittel, Andreas
> Cc: Athina Karatzogianni; list-en at oekonux.org; p2pf at yahoogroups.com;
> Peer-To-Peer Research List
> Subject: Re: [p2p-research] [p2pf] Launch of P2P Research Group
>
>
> Hi Andreas,
>
> Here's a question...a sincere one, not a rhetorical one: Is there any
> institution that has, in history, internally reformed satisfactorily by
> adopting a business model when no such model existed from the outset? I
> think of New Public Management in government/public affairs as a minimally
> successful (and still highly controversial) model. I'm sure there are
> numerous others.
>
> Universities, like governments, are not businesses. Businesses exist to
> optimize their own survival and to control percentages of ecological
> carrying capacities that enrich managers and shareholders. Governments
> exist to achieve stable advancement and protection of normative social
> values. Universities exist to....???
>
> One can add many predicates. What is disturbing is that one cannot think
> of a defining predicate...particularly one that doesn't entail prestige and
> identity enhancement...thinks seemingly at odds with sharing usable assets
> optimally.
>
> I contend p2p exists to simplify and optimize distribution of
> resources...it replaces capitalism, institutions, socialism and several
> other approaches that aimed to deal with distribution of resources. p2p is
> a form of economics that makes the money component of value subordinate to
> efficient distribution with, through, or in spite of money. Its ethos is
> sharing usable assets without creating persons or entities unwilling to
> share usable assets. It does this by minimizing overheads associated with
> the delivery of sharing.
>
> Universities were p2p 1.0. Time to envision 2.0. No need for the
> institutional components.
>
> Ryan Lanham
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Wittel, Andreas <andreas.wittel at ntu.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
> Basically I agree with this critique but would offer a twist. The
> university as secret society model is rapidly vanishing and making space for
> the university as business model. Where university knowledge formerly has
> been hidden away, it is now opening up to all kinds of so called effiencies
> such as auditing, quality control, usability, just in time delivery,
> customer service and so on. Not sure what is worse.
> Andreas
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Ryan Lanham [mailto:rlanham1963 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sun 19/04/2009 03:17
> To: Wittel, Andreas
> Cc: Athina Karatzogianni; list-en at oekonux.org; p2pf at yahoogroups.com;
> Peer-To-Peer Research List
>
> Subject: Re: [p2p-research] [p2pf] Launch of P2P Research Group
>
>
> It seems to me that there are at least two ways institutions can be
> judged successful: First, they can be viewed as survivors in an ecology.
> To succeed, they need only continue. The second way to success is in
> serving some purpose well.
>
> Monolithic knowledge has few supporters these days. So if one opts
> for the second and more human purpose, there needs to be a mission beyond
> "veritas". Teaching does not seem to be the mission of most institutions;
> it is a byproduct. Few who study teaching find universities to be
> particularly good at it, and teaching is rarely studied as a pursuit in
> universities outside of the discipline of education. Boosting people into
> competencies is a plausible mission, but even there, universities are hardly
> efficient or effective.
>
> I think universities had two symbiotic purposes--one to imbue
> students with associative identity and institutional prestige--with a
> byproduct of some learning, and the second, more elemental mission was to
> earn that prestige through "scholarship."
>
> So the real question of the worth or failure of universities comes
> back, it seems to me, to the meaning of scholarship. P2P modes exist
> (spontaneously?) for efficiencies of minimalizing institutional
> burdens--bureaucracy, identity, prestige, norms, hierachies, etc.
>
> My condemnation of universities is in finding their definitions of
> scholarship to be (too often) solipsistic, removed from relevance and, more
> generally, exclusive. They failed by hiding their product from
> transparency. Instead, they chose to form guilds and to perfect trade
> secrets, normative rituals, and to act more like secret societies than
> service entities.
>
> Regardless, knowledge is useful and universities contribute almost
> in spite of themselves. Learned individuals do the right things--perhaps as
> Athina is doing--just because they embody the very desires for meaning,
> value and efficiency that are at the heart of the p2p ethos. In a sense,
> p2p success at universities requires fighting the conventional institutional
> overhead
>
> When the two blend, the academy washes out the authenticity of p2p
> through institutional machinery that simply can't be abandoned by most.
> People need the church acoutrements that Marc suggests exist. p2p is thus
> potentially lost in the very mechanics it innocently undermines. Like water
> against a shore, it will bounce back and meld in because its dissolving
> power is very microscopic--at the level of the person...it is not aggregated
> to the perspective of people who view the world from institutional eyes...as
> land and sea. But sometimes there are storms and rapid shifts, to extend a
> metaphor way too far!
>
> Ryan Lanham
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Wittel, Andreas <
> andreas.wittel at ntu.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
> This is a interesting question.
>
> As I have hosted the workshop in Nottingham, I 'd like to
> share my experience with Nottingham Trend Uni. I asked the IT people to set
> up a wiki and was told that this is not possible as NTU wanted control over
> content. Obviously the result was a dead web site, suitable for information
> around the time of the conference, and dead later.
>
> I would suspect that most unis have this policy. Should Hull
> be more open, and open to a wiki, and willing to fund the site, then I would
> welcome this and take advantage of it. However if Hull has (1) similar
> concerns about wikis as NTU, and (2) does not fund a non-Hull website for
> the research group, I would follow Ryan's suggestion to set up the p2p
> research group without uni affiliation.
>
> Basically we dont need uni support to set up a research
> group. But we do need uni support (in terms of funding) to meet for
> conferences and workshops.
>
> One more thing. Ryan said ealier.
>
>
> On the other hand, lists of "researchers" meaning people at
> academic institutions who write papers for journals seems a failed model
>
>
> As much as my academic heart agrees with this due to all
> kinds of frustrations in this world, I find this a dangerous statement as it
> puts universities in the realm of history. Are you really suggesting we dont
> need unis any more? How about newspapers? Art? Literature? Sould all this
> (which is under serious threat atm) be allowed to be swept away for
> non-insitituational knowledge work to succeed?
>
> For those interested in the relevance of history in the
> information age I'd recommend Alan Liu (2004), The Laws of Cool.
>
> Andreas
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: p2presearch-bounces at listcultures.org on behalf of Ryan
> Lanham
> Sent: Sat 18/04/2009 20:23
> To: Athina Karatzogianni
> Cc: list-en at oekonux.org; p2pf at yahoogroups.com; Peer-To-Peer
> Research List
> Subject: Re: [p2p-research] [p2pf] Launch of P2P Research
> Group
>
>
>
> Thanks, Athina. I will do what you say.
>
> I should note, in the interest of open disclosure, that I
> have been an employee of Harvard, Northwestern and Virginia Tech
> universities. It would be disingenuous for me to ride too a horse about
> higher ed.
>
>
>
> There is a new effort going on now concerning a charter for
> best practices in community engagement that may serve as a suitable base; I
> will post a link in the next couple of days since I am not as good as Michel
> at building stockpiles on de.licio.us <http://de.licio.us/> <
> http://de.licio.us/> <http://de.licio.us/> .
>
>
>
> Anyone else who wishes to offer a collaborative foundation,
> method, or tools besides a wiki should gather their thoughts and speak out
> as time goes forward.
>
> I continue to applaud and welcome the general concept and can
> imagine the risks and frustrations associated with moving forward.
>
> Ryan Lanham
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Athina Karatzogianni <
> athina.k at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Ryan
>
> I am all for what you propose, please take the
> initiative.
>
> I would also like to add here if I may, in response
> one of your previous emails, the fact that i happen to be an academic and
> hull is interested in supporting this effort (i have kept chasing them
> around for the past 2 years!) is somehow causing political concern in terms
> of excluding non academics and other more serious ideological issues, which
> I recognize as valid.
>
> Nevertheless, it feels a constant barrier having to
> defend any sort of effort of volunteering my time. Those that know me
> personally and my work more generally will know were my political loyalties
> have been and will continue to be. They are not with institutions and
> certainly not with hierarchies.
>
> Please take the lead in this, and whoever else wants
> to take initiatives they are here to be taken. I am not excluding anyone and
> neither does what happens to be my current affiliation. In a way I am trying
> to say that this is a research group for p2p researchers, how can it have
> different logic and how it can exclude anyone? I have taken it for granted
> that it has a peer logic. Doing charters and discussing governance perhaps
> someone like you can the the lead in. All I trying to do is set up, host
> everyone for a first time in hull to discuss all these issues and create
> some sort of governance structure for the group when we meet face to face
> and get some funding going.
>
> Cheers
>
> Athina
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Ryan Lanham <
> rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Michel,
>
> Thanks. A constitution isn't a bad idea, but
> rather than one drafter, I'll look for a starting point that is more
> collaborative and perhaps an open section of the wiki could be used to
> gather broad inpur. I'd be happy to shepherd and encourage that process.
>
> Perhaps others with interests in open and
> collaborative governance could take significant roles in editing.
>
>
> Ryan Lanham
> rlanham1963 at gmail.com
>
> Facebook: Ryan_Lanham
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Michel
> Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Ryan,
>
> I don't think any social or political
> change project can bypass altogether all institutions, it needs to work both
> within and without. This being said, while aiming for funding obviously
> demands playing by some rules, I think that for all participants who believe
> in the P2P ethos, no research project can or should be exclusive to academic
> researchers. In my view, the new group should also be able to assist
> non-academic researchers.
>
> Perhaps, we could write a manifesto of
> sorts, that would serve as the 'constitution' of the group, which would
> specific this,
>
> Would you be interested in taking the
> lead in writing this?
>
> Michel
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 5:37 AM, Ryan
> Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I applaud this initiative and
> bravo to those offering the funding. On the other hand, lists of
> "researchers" meaning people at academic institutions who write papers for
> journals seems a failed model that is less in need of reinforcement than
> rejection.
>
> Research in an academic sense
> is not p2p, hasn't been, and never will be. I would not exclude it, I just
> would feed it by giving it additional free assets of prestige and focus
> without their earning those resources in open (truly open) communities.
>
> Ryan Lanham
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 5:09
> AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I´m extremely happy to
> announce this initiative, which will enable people interested in p2p
> dynamics to more easily appeal for research funding.
>
> B elow is a short
> announcement from Athina Karatzogianni, please ask for the document that she
> is referring to in her email listed below. If you are involved with
> research, academic or not, please let us know and do forward this message to
> other networks.
>
> If you have no access
> to the attached document, please request one from Athina via email
>
>
>
> Michel Bauwens
>
>
>
>
> Text:
>
>
> "The P2P Foundation <
> http://p2pfoundation.net/> in collaboration with the University of Hull <
> http://www.hull.ac.uk/> are creating a P2PResearch Group (P2PRG) with a
> physical base in Hull, in order to initiate a material equivalent to the
> various virtual networks we are all part of. Some of the goals of the group
> are to attract funding to improve already existent infrastructures, create
> more material and immaterial networks and hubs and capture funding for
> research, conferences and workshops. A conference scheduled for November
> will also produce a direct and transparent steering committee to oversee the
> various activities of the group. Therefore, it would be particularly
> helpful, if everyone, who is interested in participating, fills as much
> information as they can, in the document attached, and email it to Athina <
> http://www.hull.ac.uk/humanities/media_studies/staff/athina_karatzogianni/>
> at athina.k at gmail.com"
>
>
> see and forward doc
> attached (please edit doc michel as you see fit)
>
> athina
>
>
>
> --
> Dr Athina
> Karatzogianni
> Lecturer in Media,
> Culture and Society
> The Dean's
> Representative (Chinese Partnerships)
> Faculty of Arts and
> Social Sciences
> The University of Hull
> United Kingdom
> HU6 7RX
> T: ++44 (0) 1482 46
> 5790
> F: ++44 (0) 1482
> 466107
>
> http://www.hull.ac.uk/humanities/media_studies/staff/athina_karatzogianni/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr Athina
> Karatzogianni
> Lecturer in Media,
> Culture and Society
> The Dean's
> Representative (Chinese Partnerships)
> Faculty of Arts and
> Social Sciences
> The University of Hull
> United Kingdom
> HU6 7RX
> T: ++44 (0) 1482 46
> 5790
> F: ++44 (0) 1482
> 466107
>
> http://www.hull.ac.uk/humanities/media_studies/staff/athina_karatzogianni/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Working at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
> Volunteering at the
> P2P Foundation:
>
>
>
> http://p2pfoundation.net <http://p2pfoundation.net/> <
> http://p2pfoundation.net/> <http://p2pfoundation.net/> -
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/> <
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/> <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/> -
> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com <http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/> <
> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/> <http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/>
>
>
>
> Monitor updates at
> http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>
> The work of the P2P
> Foundation is supported by SHIFTN, http://www.shiftn.com/
>
>
>
> __._,_.___
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/start;_ylc=X3oDMTJwazUxMnVjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzMEZ3JwSWQDMTUxOTM0NTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwNjgyBHNlYwNuY21vZARzbGsDZ3JvdXBzMgRzdGltZQMxMjQwMDA3ODU5
> >
>
>
> in 3 easy steps.
>
> Connect with others.
>
> .
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
>
>
> --
> Working at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>
>
> http://p2pfoundation.net <
> http://p2pfoundation.net/> <http://p2pfoundation.net/> <
> http://p2pfoundation.net/> - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/> <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/> <
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/> - http://p2pfoundation.ning.com <
> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/> <http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/> <
> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/>
>
>
>
> Monitor updates at
> http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>
> The work of the P2P Foundation is
> supported by SHIFTN, http://www.shiftn.com/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> p2presearch mailing list
> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr Athina Karatzogianni
> Lecturer in Media, Culture and Society
> The Dean's Representative (Chinese Partnerships)
> Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
> The University of Hull
> United Kingdom
> HU6 7RX
> T: ++44 (0) 1482 46 5790
> F: ++44 (0) 1482 466107
>
> http://www.hull.ac.uk/humanities/media_studies/staff/athina_karatzogianni/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Nottingham Trent University has taken steps to ensure that this
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> recipient should check that the email and its attachments are actually virus
> free. This is in keeping with good computing practice.
>
>
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>
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> This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private
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> take no action based on it nor show a copy to anyone. In this case, please
> reply to this email to highlight the error. Opinions and information in
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> Nottingham Trent University has taken steps to ensure that this email and
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> in keeping with good computing practice.
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> _______________________________________________
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--
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
AIM: Str9960
Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
http://socialsynergyweb.org/network
http://socialmediaclassroom.com
http://localfoodsystems.org
http://openfarmtech.org
http://notanemployee.net
http://communitywiki.org
"Long ago, we brought you all this fire.
Do not imagine we are still chained to that rock...."
http://notanemployee.net/
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