[p2p-research] [p2p energy economy] Re: Snowdrift Game vs Prisoner's Dilemma

[marc fawzi]

this is a good introductory article but is not very precise or thorough in
the way it presents the concept and its implications

http://www.ts-si.org/evolution/4507-meshing-cooperative-behaviors-with-evolutionary-theory.html

the stuff I'm looking at is here:

"We demonstrate that spatial structure, implemented by placing individuals
on regular lattices with limited interaction ranges, has different effects
on the evolution of cooperation in the two simple games. Based on extensions
of the Prisoner's
Dilemma<http://www.univie.ac.at/virtuallabs/Snowdrift/#pd>to spatially
structured populations it is generally believed that spatial
extension promotes cooperation. However, spatial structure fails to
similarly favor cooperation under the apparently less stringent conditions
of the Snowdrift <http://www.univie.ac.at/virtuallabs/Snowdrift/#sd> or
Hawk-Dove <http://www.univie.ac.at/virtuallabs/Snowdrift/#hd> game. In fact,
in these games spatial structure actually tends to reduce the readiness to
cooperate. Thus, our results caution against the established view that
spatial structure is necessarily beneficial for cooperation."

limited interaction ranges is the case in a hierarchy where the prisoner's
dilemma game works well but the snowdrift game does not ... the latter works
well in networks with random interactions which is more like the p2p model

http://www.univie.ac.at/virtuallabs/Snowdrift/

A very important thing to understand is that these are all numerical
results, just the _what happens_ (from a statistical mechanics point of
view) and they don't shed any light on the _philosophical why_ or the
_deductive how_

Marc


On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Marc,
>
> Interesting game show link on the prisoner's dilemma.  What  would a
> similar case be showing a snowdrift game?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Uos2fzIJ0
>
> Ryan Lanham
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 2:40 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Still reading up on it and thinking about it. The work I'm reviewing is
>> pretty intense in its implication so I'm taking the time to really
>> understand it and make sure there are no flaws in the researchers'
>> assumptions.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Marc,
>>>
>>> I'm very interested,
>>>
>>> could you write it in such a way that it's a two-part contribution to our
>>> wiki, which I can then publish on the blog as well,
>>>
>>> the file would be called Snowdrift Game (
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Snowdrift_Game)
>>>
>>> and would
>>>
>>> 1) first contain a description
>>>
>>> 2) under 'discussion', argue the point you are making below,
>>>
>>> 3) under 'more information' , your references,
>>>
>>> thanks Marc,
>>>
>>> Michel
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 1:53 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Excerpted from another email
>>>>
>>>> "The term "snowdrift game" is a model in evolutionary game theory that
>>>> explains how cooperation is evolutionarily advantageous (contrary to the
>>>> classical interpretation of the survivalist model) but only in meshes
>>>> (according to the latest work done in this field) while it fails  in
>>>> hierarchies (i.e. leads to the extinction of those who provide unpaid
>>>> cooperation) ... It turns out the other model called the Prisoner's Dilemma
>>>> is optimal in hierarchies but it is a classical survivalist model."
>>>>
>>>> I want to put the "snowdrift game + mesh WORKS_BETTER_THAN prisoner's
>>>> dilemma + hierarchy" game theory meme out there, and my belief is that
>>>> "renewable hierarchies" (which i had described as being similar to, e.g. US
>>>> Congress, EU Parliament, etc) operate more like a mesh from a game
>>>> theoretical perspective because they could theoretically lead to well-mixed
>>>> population in the production organization (as workers are replaced
>>>> frequently) but now I realize that in order to get a well-mixed population
>>>> the hierarchy has to be as flat as possible from the management and
>>>> organizational views (without losing coordination) to minimize hierarchical
>>>> interactions and maximize mesh interaction and the renewal of workers in the
>>>> production hierarchy has to happen as frequently as possible... (I realized
>>>> this requires a graphical simulation to show clearly.)
>>>>
>>>> I can supply more references and explanations if anyone is interested.
>>>>
>>>> Marc
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>
>>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>>
>>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>>
>>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Marc Fawzi
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>
>>
>>
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-- 

Marc Fawzi
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
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