[p2p-research] [p2p energy economy] Fwd: Follow up

marc fawzi marc.fawzi at gmail.com
Fri Apr 17 13:16:16 CEST 2009 

I need to dump my Blackberry. That should have said "there are no 1-2-3
isntructions for Open peer production"

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 3:57 AM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:

> The music changed and many ideologies are trying to prove they are
> still in the groove, so to speak, but its clear that the old dance is
> dead.
>
> There is no 1-2-3 instruction fo Poen peer production, at least not a
> Powerpoint or rap song or any kind pf popular, memorable theme.
>
> However seeing how far it has come is in itself evidence as to the
> appeal of the core message.
>
> So way to go, and hopefully more to come.
>
>
>
>
> On 4/17/09, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Things are happening,
> >
> > just a few things from my perspective,
> >
> > - got word that at least half a dozen phd researchers in a helsinki
> > university were 'strongly influenced' by the p2p work, and also a local
> > group in Arkansas, 'where the p2p work is mentioned almost daily'
> >
> > - also, got requests from romania, hungary in the last week, for essay
> > contributions
> >
> > this is just a small sample,
> >
> > what I would like to see is people connecting globally, under the
> umbrella
> > of the p2p foundation, to meet up etc...
> >
> > utlimately, I think more explicitely political circles would be called
> for,
> > but like the P2P Research Group, with a independent to linked identity,
> >
> > Michel
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 5:12 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I just want to say that I have a huge respect for Ryan and all his
> >> input to this collective realization. Same for everyone here.
> >>
> >> I am having my own archetypal struggle ATM as far as ideologies and
> >> behaviors go, but this group really has a great effect on my thinking,
> >> so please don't take my challenges as obstruction but rather as
> >> stemming from my need to harvest the collective psyche :)
> >>
> >> Its never easy being on the fringe. Feels like bumper cars. Like we
> >> should be able to put our thoughts tohbether in a more collective way.
> >>
> >> I'll leave it to Michel to make those connections.
> >>
> >> We can make a difference. I've seen it happen.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Marc
> >>
> >>
> >> On 4/16/09, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Ryan,
> >> >
> >> > I find your contribution very interesting, because it touches the key
> >> > problem of the interoperability and exchangeability of multiple
> >> currencies
> >> > which may have little in common.
> >> >
> >> > As it is under-discussed, I would really appreciate if you could
> >> > address
> >> > this issue for our blog, by expanding a little on your contribution
> >> > here,
> >> > with an extra context for lay people so they understand its
> importance?
> >> >
> >> > Michel
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Marc:
> >> >>
> >> >> This may seem a bit governmental, but I'd argue the key to your
> system
> >> is
> >> >> the policy objective a given currency wishes to optimize--set through
> >> some
> >> >> collaborative governance mechanism or by a representative group (e.g.
> >> >> a
> >> >> chamber of commerce or a community foundation).
> >> >>
> >> >> Use arbitrage between currencies allow different "pots" of money to
> >> >> reallocate.  In a prison, cigarettes might be used to buy services,
> >> >> and
> >> >> cans
> >> >> of mackeral used to buy goods, but you can have a market between mack
> >> and
> >> >> cigs.
> >> >>
> >> >> In other words, think of a rainbow of color currencies.  Orange is
> for
> >> >> this, blue is for that.  If you want blue to optimize efficient
> >> production
> >> >> of non-carbon energy, price it in energy units accordingly.  Let
> >> >> market
> >> >> mechanisms reallocate with possible REGULATORY governance actions
> that
> >> can
> >> >> intervene to change supply/demand in arbitrage options.
> >> >>
> >> >> There is a tendency for people to dislike markets because of some of
> >> their
> >> >> failings.  That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  The key
> >> >> to
> >> a
> >> >> polyarchic currency system, I believe, is to allow rapid creation of
> >> >> policy
> >> >> objectives (new colors) combined with rapid introduction of
> >> >> market-based
> >> >> arbitrage between colors.  Use limited numbers of price-settings in
> >> >> auctions
> >> >> to reduce speculative games.  In other words, the rate set between
> >> orange
> >> >> and blue may only be set twice a day, etc.
> >> >>
> >> >> Who sets?  The high bidder, up to some limit...then the next highest
> >> >> bidder, and so forth.
> >> >>
> >> >> The key is allowance of persistent coupon systems matching policy
> aims
> >> >> (like a bond market really, but more liquid and fungible).  In
> current
> >> >> worlds, that aim (the policy objective of a currency) is the growth
> of
> >> >> a
> >> >> given currency economy or allowance of government actions that can
> use
> >> >> currency devaluation to achieve some governmental policy objective
> >> >> (e.g.
> >> >> short term consumption against long-term pain.)
> >> >>
> >> >> Ryan Lanham
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 11:24 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Just sharing some notes on the current problems in the P2P Energy
> >> Economy
> >> >>> model
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> >>> From: marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
> >> >>> Date: Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 9:23 PM
> >> >>> Subject: Follow up
> >> >>> To: James Edwards <bluecollargreenie at gmail.com>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hi James,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I'm sorry to have dropped the ball on our discussion re: energy flow
> >> >>> based
> >> >>> currency...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I went to Arizona where we had no Internet and learned all about
> >> >>> solar
> >> >>> power
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Then I became homeless for a while, lost my girlfriend, etc
> >> >>>
> >> >>> And now I'm back to work thanks to a sudden and unexpected turn of
> >> events
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The problems with the P2P Energy Economy as of v3.00.00 boil down to
> >> >>> this:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Issue 1:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "it's hard to see how individual energy producers would have any
> >> >>> substantial surplus if they had tiny solar generators and it's even
> >> >>> harder
> >> >>> to see how there could be a flow of energy from peers with surplus
> to
> >> >>> peers
> >> >>> with deficit if everyone had a surplus. This is the basic and
> >> >>> universal
> >> >>> issue (or two issues,) IMO. For each given type of product (e.g.
> >> energy,
> >> >>> milk, cars, etc) we can't have everyone be a producer because the
> >> >>> "flow
> >> >>> of
> >> >>> energy" is the "economy of life" and without a deficit on one side
> >> >>> and
> >> a
> >> >>> surplus on the other there is no flow (or movement) of energy (and
> no
> >> >>> flow
> >> >>> of energy equal no life, literally.)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So in order to have both the maximum surplus of the thing being
> >> produced
> >> >>> and the maximum flow of that thing from the surplus side to the
> >> >>> deficit
> >> >>> side, the production tends towards centralization (within each
> >> geographic
> >> >>> or
> >> >>> virtual market)"
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Issue 2:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The very act of paying someone (for a non-scarce resource) and
> >> expecting
> >> >>> some service back creates a master-slave (or more mildly a
> >> >>> 'customer-server'
> >> >>> relationship) relationship... and this is a type of hierarchy
> >> basically.
> >> >>> I'm
> >> >>> having an issue with the idea of a hierarchy even though it's
> >> established
> >> >>> in
> >> >>> nature and even if we use the kind of renewable hierarchies that I
> >> >>> describe
> >> >>> (in passing) in the P2P Energy Economy. I'm studying two game
> >> theoretical
> >> >>> models, the Prisoners Dilemma game and the Snowdrift (or Hawk-Dove)
> >> game
> >> >>> in
> >> >>> the context of hierarchies, latices with limited set of
> >> >>> neighbor-to-neighbor
> >> >>> interactions per element and networks with random interactions. I
> >> haven't
> >> >>> had enough time with all that has been happening to produce any
> >> >>> insight
> >> >>> as
> >> >>> far as the best type of system from a moral and evolutionary
> >> perspective
> >> >>> but
> >> >>> I know the P2P Energy Economy sections concerned with organization
> >> >>> are
> >> >>> lacking.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If you have anything to share on your end, as far as your work goes,
> >> >>> please feel free to do so.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Marc Fawzi
> >> >>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
> >> >>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups
> >> >>> "P2P Energy Economy" group.
> >> >>> To post to this group, send email to
> >> p2p-energy-economy at googlegroups.com
> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> >>> p2p-energy-economy+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<p2p-energy-economy%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>
> <p2p-energy-economy%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com<p2p-energy-economy%252Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>
> >
> >> <p2p-energy-economy%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com<p2p-energy-economy%252Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>
> <p2p-energy-economy%252Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com<p2p-energy-economy%25252Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>
> >
> >> >
> >> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/p2p-energy-economy?hl=en
> >> >>> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> p2presearch mailing list
> >> >> p2presearch at listcultures.org
> >> >>
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> >> > http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> >> > http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >> >
> >> > Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
> >> > http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
> >> > http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
> >> >
> >> > Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
> >> >
> >> > The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> >> > http://www.shiftn.com/
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Marc Fawzi
> >> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> > http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> > http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >
> > Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
> > http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
> > http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
> >
> > Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
> >
> > The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> > http://www.shiftn.com/
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Marc Fawzi
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>



-- 

Marc Fawzi
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20090417/d3ddd501/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the p2presearch mailing list